Autolisp Code Protector

[Anonymous]

Hello João!

It is pointless to mention here about code protectors for Autolisp...
There are some free version on the NET (acomp, kelv, crypt) but they come
toghether with their decript programs...

There are 2 diferent problems here...
You want to protect your code (but you application can be runned by anyone)
or you want to protect your code and application in the same time...

If you want to protect only your code, you can compile your lsp file using
Visual LISP into an vlx or arx file for AutoCAD R14 or into a vlx file in
A2K. This will protect your code, but everybody will be able to run the
application...

If you want to protect your application (hide code and only authorized user
to be able to run your application) you first must compile the lsp file
using Visual LISP and than protect the application using a hardlock key
(Rainbow, Hardlock, HASP etc).

Marius

[Anonymous]

Marius wrote:
>If you want to protect your application (hide code and only authorized user
>to be able to run your application) you first must compile the lsp file
>using Visual LISP and than protect the application using a hardlock key
>(Rainbow, Hardlock, HASP etc).

a seperate hardlock is not required.
either lock it to the serial number of the acad version:
(getvar "_PKSER")
or on locked versions (outside the US, with acad hardlock) lock it to
this number:
(getvar "_LINFO")

--
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/news/faq/autolisp.html

[Anonymous]

True, but some major incovenients may appear:

1. This will make your application dependant on a certain user AutoCAD
serial number... User wil not be able to use the application on another
station with same version of AutoCAD, but different serial...
2. You will not be able to offer free evaluation version to your users, for
a limited period of time...
3. If somebody succeds in finding a cracked acad version, your application
personalized to that serial number can be already considered cracked...

Marius

Reini Urban wrote in message
news:382421a2.97187408@judy...
> a seperate hardlock is not required.
> either lock it to the serial number of the acad version:
> (getvar "_PKSER")
> or on locked versions (outside the US, with acad hardlock) lock it to
> this number:
> (getvar "_LINFO")

[Anonymous]

I haven't been following this thread, but when counting on a serial number,
keep in mind that some companies use the same SN company wide, keeping the
licensed copies on the shelf. At least that's the way it used to work.
I'm not sure about the last two releases, or site licensing.
--
Dave D
(remove '-' for Email)

Marius wrote in article
<801jt2$k6m3@adesknews2.autodesk.com>...
>
> True, but some major incovenients may appear:
>
> 1. This will make your application dependant on a certain user AutoCAD
> serial number... User wil not be able to use the application on another
> station with same version of AutoCAD, but different serial...
> 2. You will not be able to offer free evaluation version to your users,
for
> a limited period of time...
> 3. If somebody succeds in finding a cracked acad version, your
application
> personalized to that serial number can be already considered cracked...
>
> Marius
>
>
> Reini Urban wrote in message
> news:382421a2.97187408@judy...
> > a seperate hardlock is not required.
> > either lock it to the serial number of the acad version:
> > (getvar "_PKSER")
> > or on locked versions (outside the US, with acad hardlock) lock it to
> > this number:
> > (getvar "_LINFO")
>
>
>
>

[Anonymous]

No, I have never heard two AutoCAD software products with the same serial
number at diferent users... In fact this is Autodesk method to control the
licence users...
What is true is that if we are talking about a non hardlock protected
AutoCAD version, that can be easily passed from the licenced user to SOMEONE
ELSE, and your application uses for protection that serial number, than that
SOMEONE ELSE will be able to use your product with no licence...
In order to support my opinion regarding the necesity of using a sepparate
hardlock for your application in order to protect it against software
piracy, I want to remember you that Genius product (first written in lisp),
before it was bought by Autodesk, required a serial number, a hardlock and
an authorization code with many many characters...
And I have never heard anything about a cracked Genius version for AutoCAD
12/13/14...
What is also true is that a company can use hardlocks with the same
characteristics, but they will manage their licences using different serial
numbers and also authorization codes...
Anyhow this discussion is valid only for significant aplications in
development area, when you realy need to protect your work... For small
customizing applications is perfectly valid what Reini said in his
message...

Marius

David Doane wrote in message
news:01bf2891$2c8bed80$4256d2d0@lms-1...
> I haven't been following this thread, but when counting on a serial
number,
> keep in mind that some companies use the same SN company wide, keeping the
> licensed copies on the shelf. At least that's the way it used to work.
> I'm not sure about the last two releases, or site licensing.
> --
> Dave D
> (remove '-' for Email)
>
> Marius wrote in article
> <801jt2$k6m3@adesknews2.autodesk.com>...
> >
> > True, but some major incovenients may appear:
> >
> > 1. This will make your application dependant on a certain user AutoCAD
> > serial number... User wil not be able to use the application on another
> > station with same version of AutoCAD, but different serial...
> > 2. You will not be able to offer free evaluation version to your users,
> for
> > a limited period of time...
> > 3. If somebody succeds in finding a cracked acad version, your
> application
> > personalized to that serial number can be already considered cracked...
> >
> > Marius
> >
> >
> > Reini Urban wrote in message
> > news:382421a2.97187408@judy...
> > > a seperate hardlock is not required.
> > > either lock it to the serial number of the acad version:
> > > (getvar "_PKSER")
> > > or on locked versions (outside the US, with acad hardlock) lock it to
> > > this number:
> > > (getvar "_LINFO")
> >
> >
> >
> >

[Anonymous]

Marius,

> No, I have never heard two AutoCAD software products with the same serial
> number at diferent users... In fact this is Autodesk method to control
the
> licence users...

If a company buys, say 5, copies of AutoCAD, and they register all 5 to the
CAD administrator or company owner, they can use 1 copy on five machines
and put the other 4 on the shelf. It would be no different than
reinstalling the same copy 4 times.

When I was an Autodesk Reseller, I would preregister 50 copies, all exactly
the same, at one setting before even delivering them to the customer. I
just created a DOS batch file utilizing a program called StacKey and ran it
on all of the primary diskettes.

I realize that it cannot be done in exactly the same way today, but it can
be done in a similar fashion.

And that was all that I was commenting on. No more.
--
Dave D
(remove '-' for Email)

Marius wrote in article
<802kfk$mjc3@adesknews2.autodesk.com>...
>
> No, I have never heard two AutoCAD software products with the same serial
> number at diferent users... In fact this is Autodesk method to control
the
> licence users...
> What is true is that if we are talking about a non hardlock protected
> AutoCAD version, that can be easily passed from the licenced user to
SOMEONE
> ELSE, and your application uses for protection that serial number, than
that
> SOMEONE ELSE will be able to use your product with no licence...
> In order to support my opinion regarding the necesity of using a
sepparate
> hardlock for your application in order to protect it against software
> piracy, I want to remember you that Genius product (first written in
lisp),
> before it was bought by Autodesk, required a serial number, a hardlock
and
> an authorization code with many many characters...
> And I have never heard anything about a cracked Genius version for
AutoCAD
> 12/13/14...
> What is also true is that a company can use hardlocks with the same
> characteristics, but they will manage their licences using different
serial
> numbers and also authorization codes...
> Anyhow this discussion is valid only for significant aplications in
> development area, when you realy need to protect your work... For small
> customizing applications is perfectly valid what Reini said in his
> message...
>
> Marius
>
>
> David Doane wrote in message
> news:01bf2891$2c8bed80$4256d2d0@lms-1...
> > I haven't been following this thread, but when counting on a serial
> number,
> > keep in mind that some companies use the same SN company wide, keeping
the
> > licensed copies on the shelf. At least that's the way it used to work.
> > I'm not sure about the last two releases, or site licensing.
> > --
> > Dave D
> > (remove '-' for Email)
> >
> > Marius wrote in article
> > <801jt2$k6m3@adesknews2.autodesk.com>...
> > >
> > > True, but some major incovenients may appear:
> > >
> > > 1. This will make your application dependant on a certain user
AutoCAD
> > > serial number... User wil not be able to use the application on
another
> > > station with same version of AutoCAD, but different serial...
> > > 2. You will not be able to offer free evaluation version to your
users,
> > for
> > > a limited period of time...
> > > 3. If somebody succeds in finding a cracked acad version, your
> > application
> > > personalized to that serial number can be already considered
cracked...
> > >
> > > Marius
> > >
> > >
> > > Reini Urban wrote in message
> > > news:382421a2.97187408@judy...
> > > > a seperate hardlock is not required.
> > > > either lock it to the serial number of the acad version:
> > > > (getvar "_PKSER")
> > > > or on locked versions (outside the US, with acad hardlock) lock it
to
> > > > this number:
> > > > (getvar "_LINFO")
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>

[Anonymous]

David,

Valid only for north-america area...
If you sell anywhere else, lets say in Europe, each copy has its one
hardlock and if you want to use all five copies you must install all 5
copies, because their serial number and hardlock are conected...
There is a posibility to use the same hardlocked copy on all five machines,
but not in the same time, if you use a single network licence...

Marius

David Doane wrote in message
news:01bf28c8$1c5d25a0$e956d2d0@lms-1...
> Marius,
>
> > No, I have never heard two AutoCAD software products with the same
serial
> > number at diferent users... In fact this is Autodesk method to control
> the
> > licence users...
>
> If a company buys, say 5, copies of AutoCAD, and they register all 5 to
the
> CAD administrator or company owner, they can use 1 copy on five machines
> and put the other 4 on the shelf. It would be no different than
> reinstalling the same copy 4 times.
>
> When I was an Autodesk Reseller, I would preregister 50 copies, all
exactly
> the same, at one setting before even delivering them to the customer. I
> just created a DOS batch file utilizing a program called StacKey and ran
it
> on all of the primary diskettes.
>
> I realize that it cannot be done in exactly the same way today, but it can
> be done in a similar fashion.
>
> And that was all that I was commenting on. No more.
> --
> Dave D
> (remove '-' for Email)
>
> Marius wrote in article
> <802kfk$mjc3@adesknews2.autodesk.com>...
> >
> > No, I have never heard two AutoCAD software products with the same
serial
> > number at diferent users... In fact this is Autodesk method to control
> the
> > licence users...
> > What is true is that if we are talking about a non hardlock protected
> > AutoCAD version, that can be easily passed from the licenced user to
> SOMEONE
> > ELSE, and your application uses for protection that serial number, than
> that
> > SOMEONE ELSE will be able to use your product with no licence...
> > In order to support my opinion regarding the necesity of using a
> sepparate
> > hardlock for your application in order to protect it against software
> > piracy, I want to remember you that Genius product (first written in
> lisp),
> > before it was bought by Autodesk, required a serial number, a hardlock
> and
> > an authorization code with many many characters...
> > And I have never heard anything about a cracked Genius version for
> AutoCAD
> > 12/13/14...
> > What is also true is that a company can use hardlocks with the same
> > characteristics, but they will manage their licences using different
> serial
> > numbers and also authorization codes...
> > Anyhow this discussion is valid only for significant aplications in
> > development area, when you realy need to protect your work... For small
> > customizing applications is perfectly valid what Reini said in his
> > message...
> >
> > Marius
> >
> >
> > David Doane wrote in message
> > news:01bf2891$2c8bed80$4256d2d0@lms-1...
> > > I haven't been following this thread, but when counting on a serial
> > number,
> > > keep in mind that some companies use the same SN company wide, keeping
> the
> > > licensed copies on the shelf. At least that's the way it used to
work.
> > > I'm not sure about the last two releases, or site licensing.
> > > --
> > > Dave D
> > > (remove '-' for Email)
> > >
> > > Marius wrote in article
> > > <801jt2$k6m3@adesknews2.autodesk.com>...
> > > >
> > > > True, but some major incovenients may appear:
> > > >
> > > > 1. This will make your application dependant on a certain user
> AutoCAD
> > > > serial number... User wil not be able to use the application on
> another
> > > > station with same version of AutoCAD, but different serial...
> > > > 2. You will not be able to offer free evaluation version to your
> users,
> > > for
> > > > a limited period of time...
> > > > 3. If somebody succeds in finding a cracked acad version, your
> > > application
> > > > personalized to that serial number can be already considered
> cracked...
> > > >
> > > > Marius
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Reini Urban wrote in message
> > > > news:382421a2.97187408@judy...
> > > > > a seperate hardlock is not required.
> > > > > either lock it to the serial number of the acad version:
> > > > > (getvar "_PKSER")
> > > > > or on locked versions (outside the US, with acad hardlock) lock it
> to
> > > > > this number:
> > > > > (getvar "_LINFO")
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >

[Anonymous]

Not at all ...

No, The Serial Number of AutoCAD aren't conected to HardLock,
AutoCAD see if you have instaled one HardLock but it's indiferent if you
chage it ...
I don't say i work with 5 licences in network (only one net - HardLock), i
can work with 5 locals HardLcok. (you can change the HardLock, after install
it, and AutoCAD runs very well)

MDT verify the HardLock and YES, it is in the instalation ASk you for a
Number of activation that depend of the HardLock. The same occurs with Hyper
Mill.

And..., you can work with a net-Hardlock and run the same AutoCAD (with the
same Serial number) in the same computer or in others, simulteanusly the
times as you licences have.

______________________________________________________
J.C.Troncoso. TRONCOSOFT. University of Vigo (Spain)
tsaracho@uvigo.es

Marius escribió en mensaje <8030nm$mjd7@adesknews2.autodesk.com>...
>David,
>
>Valid only for north-america area...
>If you sell anywhere else, lets say in Europe, each copy has its one
>hardlock and if you want to use all five copies you must install all 5
>copies, because their serial number and hardlock are conected...
>There is a posibility to use the same hardlocked copy on all five machines,
>but not in the same time, if you use a single network licence...
>
>Marius

[Anonymous]

Diferent things, diferent opinions...

> And..., you can work with a net-Hardlock and run the same AutoCAD (with
the
> same Serial number) in the same computer or in others, simulteanusly the
> times as you licences have.

Let's see solutions offered with network hardlocks...
One allows you to run simulteanusly in the network the number of licences
you have.
For example Alladin has NetHASP-5, NetHASP-10 etc...
I was not refering at this solution that obviously allows you to run
applucation in the same time on 5, 10 ... computers in the network...

But there is another solution I was refering to: <> -
when you want to buy and use only 1 (ONE) licence but anywhere in the
network.
This solution is ...

[Anonymous]

Marius wrote in message
news:802kfk$mjc3@adesknews2.autodesk.com...
>
> No, I have never heard two AutoCAD software products with the same serial
> number at diferent users... In fact this is Autodesk method to control the

Network license pools all use a master serial number, thus the same
serial number is in place for every client installation regardless
of individual install type of configurations.

But in additional to other comments on protecting your programs
you can compile evaluation copies, but cripple some of the key
functions. For example, if your program must create a file, then
simply have the evaluation version not create the file, but rather
display the information in a dialog listbox just to demonstrate
what the user would get otherwise.

Go to my website and download DFBrowser v2b.14 (AcadR14)
Run a file search and collection then try to [OK] or [Print] the list.
The list contents will be removed and prompted as an evaluation
version. Aside from this key feature (the most important) it is
entirely functional. This should be a good example of crippleware
Not to much, not too little. Although a nag screen really goes
a long way too in allowing full functionality while plainly advertising
unregistered software. Without removing program functionality and
along with it, its demonstration value and impact, you can't do alot
with VLISP to protect your software, but you can make sure it is
a less than convinient process for someone to attempt to use it
productively as an unregistered copy. Just a little thorn in the side.

Personally if I like a program and (even when its entirely functional)
I pay the person the $10 or $20 they ask for their trouble. I can't
understand why so many people would go to $50 or $100 worth their
time and effort just to attempt to get around paying these small amounts.
But with that kind of reasoning at work, maybe its no surprise that
these might be rather hefty sums for such a persons budget. Of
course I am excluding students from that generalization, I was there
too. 🙂

Jesse Danes
AutoCAD Administrator / MCAD Central Functions
Honeywell, Home & Building Controls

http://www.pclink.com/jdanes/caders/index.htm

[Anonymous]

Jesse,

> Tell it like it is. Good on you. 🙂

First of all I liked your approval message for Michael Pucket, when he stood
up regarding the unlock a LISP protected file. But when you use this kind of
protection, that is what you can expect for...
First someone tries to unlock the file, then modify it and then will protect
it otherway...
All Autolisp encryption programms came with the decode module: kelv,
decrypt, decode...
He will not find here the key for his problem, but he will find it somewhere
else...

> But in additional to other comments on protecting your programs
> you can compile evaluation copies, but cripple some of the key
> functions. For example, if your program must create a file, then
> simply have the evaluation version not create the file, but rather
> display the information in a dialog listbox just to demonstrate
> what the user would get otherwise.

I have used this kinf of protection since AutoCAD R11/12. I am sure that you
have heard about ACOMP- AutoLISP Compiler. Than for AutoCAD R13 there were
two major compilers: Vital LISP (ancient of actual Visual LISP, before
Autodesk has bought it) and LISP2C - another powerful and efficient
translator into C code (you were finaly obtaining .exe file). Since AutoCAD
R14, we have Visual LISP...

> Personally if I like a program and (even when its entirely functional)
> I pay the person the $10 or $20 they ask for their trouble. I can't
> understand why so many people would go to $50 or $100 worth their
> time and effort just to attempt to get around paying these small amounts.
> But with that kind of reasoning at work, maybe its no surprise that
> these might be rather hefty sums for such a persons budget. Of
> course I am excluding students from that generalization, I was there
> too. 🙂

Yes, I have already agreed in my message that for 10-20$ applications this
method is good....
> For small customizing applications is perfectly valid what Reini said in
his message...
More general, this method is good when your application value is smaller
than a hardlock key price...

But a professinal cracker will not bother himself to break a 10-20$
customizing application...
I was talking about major software brand names cracked, because
unfortunately, there are two major methods of attacking EVEN a protected
application:
1. Patching calls to the protected routine
2. Patching the software of the key manufacturer.
I was refering to the latter method, even if I've seen enough samples of
both of them...

If you are interested in code protection, you know there are professional
software protection systems used by all the major software development
companies. Each one has its one tricks and rules, as use multiple calls to
the hardlock, use multiple seed codes and the most important avoid using
comparison...
Another one you have already mentioned... encrypt parts of your code...

I will close this message as i had it before...

> Anyhow this discussion is valid only for significant aplications in
> development area, when you realy need to protect your work...

Marius