2D Axisymmetric Cylinder

2D Axisymmetric Cylinder

Anonymous
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Message 1 of 9

2D Axisymmetric Cylinder

Anonymous
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Hello All,

 

I am trying to do an evaluation of a hydraulic cylinder using 2D axisymmetric elements. I have attached the section view of the cylinder. I know that the sketch needs to be projected onto the YZ plane to be able to do this. I am able to get the sketch onto the YZ plane with changing the import options, but I am stuck after that and it seems that everything I try doesn't work. Does the sketch need to be centered on the origin for the axisymmetric to work? Can someone point me in the right direction? 

 

Thanks,

 

Justin Heydon, PE

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Message 2 of 9

John_Holtz
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

Hi Justin, welcome to the forum.

 

You didn't mention what specifically was not working, so here is a list of things that I noticed. Hopefully, one of them will be the solution. Smiley Happy Of course, all of the drawing-related tasks can be done to the original AutoCAD drawing or to the sketches after you import it.

 

  1. The model needs to be positioned so that the centerline is at Y=0.
  2. The Y coordinate becomes the radius. So, you only need the portion of the model on the +Y side of the axis.
  3. Each enclosed region needs to be on a separate part. So the 5 welds need to be 5 different parts. If I counted properly, it looks as if you need to have 10 parts in the final model. (See the attached image).
  4. Each part must be a completely enclosed region. It looks like most of the parts are fully enclosed except for some of the welds. (Once you get it in Simulation Mechanical, you can right-click on a part and choose "Isolate". This will help to show whether the outline is complete or not.)
  5. If you want the mesh to match between the parts (so that the parts are connected together), the outlines where the different parts match must be the same length. So the side of the tube (part (4) in my figure) should be split or intersected where each of the welds (parts (5), (7), (8), and (10)) meet up.
  6. To mesh the entire model, right-click on "Plane 2" in the browser (tree) and choose "Select all sketches". You can then generate the mesh using "Mesh > Mesh > Generate 2D Mesh".
  7. Under the Element Definition for each part, set the "Geometry Type" to Axisymmetric.

 

If you still need help, maybe create an archive of the model and attach it. See "Create, Post, or Provide an Archive of your model".
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John Holtz, P.E.

Global Product Support
Autodesk, Inc.


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Message 3 of 9

Anonymous
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John,

 

Thank you for your response. How do I make sure that my model is on the centerline Y=0? I drew it in AutoCAD I believe on the XY plane. Should each weld be a different layer in my AutoCAD drawing?

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Message 4 of 9

John_Holtz
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

I would think that you can move the center of the base to (0,0,0) in AutoCAD. When it gets imported, the center of the base will still be at (0,0,0). I do not think that you need to rotate the model + or - 90 degrees in AutoCAD; it looked like the sketch was oriented properly so that the Y coordinate in Simulation Mechanical will be the radius and Z will be the axial.

 

As for the welds, I do think that the layer number in AutoCAD comes in as different part numbers in Simulation Mechanical. So the answer is yes: you want to change the layer number of each weld in AutoCAD. (Or you can make all of the changes in Simulation Mechanical -- which ever is easier.)

 

 


______________________________________________________________

If my post answers your question, please click the "Accept as Solution" button. This helps everyone find answers more quickly!

 



John Holtz, P.E.

Global Product Support
Autodesk, Inc.


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Message 5 of 9

Anonymous
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John,

 

You have been a tremendous help so far and maybe you can help just a little more. I did everything you said to do and it meshed nicely, but it failed when I tried running the analysis. I fixed the larger flat surface of the flange and applied pressure to the appropriate surfaces and still failed. I am attaching an archive file and my updated dwg. Could you please help?

 

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Message 6 of 9

John_Holtz
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

Hi Justin,

 

You have come a long way! The attached image shows part 6 (the part mentioned in the error message about the distorted element). There are a couple of elements that look like triangles, but they are actually 4-node quad elements: two sides are almost in a straight line. These are the elements that the analysis is complaining about.

 

Using the "Node Angle" result on the entire model, I see there are some other parts that have the same problem, but I am guessing the solver got to part 6 first.

 

So some combination of the following suggestions should resolve the error message.

  1. Maybe instead of the default "all quad mesh", try using a "Mixed mesh". This will put in a few triangles now and then which should eliminate the distorted 4-node quad elements.
  2. Use a finer mesh size of 0.5" or smaller on the model. The nice thing about 2D models is that they do not take very long to run.
  3. Depending on how many elements are put into the rings and welds, you may need to add some refinement points near those parts in order to get more elements in them. (After meshing, select a node in the area where you want a refinement, then right-click > Add > Refinement Points".) And then remesh the model (right-click on "Mesh 1" in the browser > Edit)

 



John Holtz, P.E.

Global Product Support
Autodesk, Inc.


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Message 7 of 9

Anonymous
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John,

 

We did it! I was able to get it to mesh and run. Only problem is now is to know when I have the right mesh. My results are necessarily matching up with a 3D analysis. There are very high stresses ant the weld points. Any suggestions?

 

Thanks so much for your help,

 

Justin Heydon, PE

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Message 8 of 9

John_Holtz
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

Great! As I told someone else recently, getting results is the first step to getting results Smiley Happy

 

Here are a number of things to investigate about your model:

  1. Is the constraint on the ring (part 5) correct? The high stress in the welds (parts 6 & 7) may be due to the fact that the ring is fixed from moving. What is holding the ring in place in the real assembly? (See the attached "check constraint.png") Does the real constraint
  2. There may still be an issue with the shape of the elements. I noticed a very small gap between the ring and tube (part 4 & 3, for example). This leaves a small edge that for an element in the weld. (See the attached "eliminate small gap.png". Sorry, I should have captured an image of the same ring and welds, but I did not Smiley Sad.) I am hoping that the elements will not be so long and skinny by eliminating the gap, and that may improve the stresses. Be sure to set the contact between the ring and tube as "Free/No Contact" so that they are not bonded together. (Select the two parts, right-click > Contact > Free/No Contact.) I think this situation of the small gap appears in 3 locations in the model.
  3. The key question is what happens in real life compared to the analysis. Analysis (FEA) is generally not very good at sharp corners. It acts like a stress concentration -- like a fillet of 0 radius. If this is what is occurring, then the stress will continue to rise as you make the mesh smaller. If the stress calculation is "real", then the stress will stop increasing once you make the mesh "fine enough". So if the problem is the sharp corner, you may need to ignore the result at those spots, and extrapolate the result for the adjacent nodes to get a better estimate of what happens right at the corner. Experience with the real assembly can help here, especially if you can analyze an existing design that you know is satisfactory. If that analysis gives the same high stress, you have some justification to ignore it.

Here are two other thoughts related to the welds, which are not intended to imply that the results can be ignored just because they are high. If other readers have some feedback, please provide your insight. But what I wanted to say is:

  • The real situation in a weld is highly complex because of the heat applied during welding. All of the residual stresses that occur are being ignored. (Don't worry, the residual stresses are ignored in 99.95% of analyses.) The stresses being calculated are added to the residual stress, so I do not know if a calculated stress of 80% of yield is acceptable or if the residual stress is so high that a calculated stress of 5% of yield is too high!
  • This is just a guess, but I think a lot of things yield in real life. It might be just a spot at a stress concentration, but such yielding "relieves" the high stress, and the load gets distributed to the rest of the assembly. Of course, if fatigue is a concern, then localized yielding can still be a concern. But if a part is basically static, then a small amount of yielding may be permissible.

 



John Holtz, P.E.

Global Product Support
Autodesk, Inc.


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Message 9 of 9

Anonymous
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John,

 

Thanks much for your continued help. I think I am on the right track for 2D elements!

 

Justin Heydon, PE

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