Ferme treillis

anais_rochisX9KX4
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Ferme treillis

anais_rochisX9KX4
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Bonjour, 

 

je dois modéliser une panne treillis pour une charpente métallique. 

 

C'est la première panne treillis que je modélise car je débute. J'ai une instabilité qui se crée sur mes diagonales et j'ai l'impression que ma structure ne se charge pas correctement. 

 

Est ce que quelqu'un saurait me résoudre le problème ? Les charges appliquées sont les bonnes il s'agit vraiment de la partie d'application des relâchements et du type de barre. 

 

Merci. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Replies (12)

Simau
Mentor
Mentor

@anais_rochisX9KX4 

Vos paramètres pour les membrures inf et sup ne sont pas correctes. Pour les paramètres dans le modèle joint j’ai supposé qu’il y avait des ciseaux et des nœuds de poutre au vent toutes les 2 trames.

Pour les diagonales, vous pouvez les déclarer en « tension seule » et ne pas tenir compte du flambement.

J'ai aussi supprim& les 2 appuis en partie supérieure

Tout est validé avec ces nouveaux types, même en aggravant les paramètres de flambement des membrures.

 

M. Agayr
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anais_rochisX9KX4
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IMG_6388.JPG

Bonjour @Simau ,

merci pour votre retour. 

 

Mes pannes sont non continues et boulonnées à la structure, au niveau des appuis comment est ce que je peux le définir ? Est ce que je peux laisser les appuis en partie inférieure tels quels que vous les avez mis dans votre modélisation ? 

 

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Simau
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Mentor

Bonjour @anais_rochisX9KX4 

D'après l'image, on peut considérer que les appuis que vous avez prévus dans votre modèle sont corrects. On peut également considérer que la membrure supérieure est tenu au flambement hors plan à chaque trame. La membrure inférieure peut par contre flamber sur toute sa longueur, ce qui est visible sur la copie d'écran.

Vérifier aussi l'orientation de la charge Wn qui semble étrange

 

Simau_0-1727174366113.jpeg

 

Simau_1-1727174398072.jpegModèle mis à jour joint .

 

 

 

M. Agayr
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Simau
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@anais_rochisX9KX4 

Mise à jour tenant compte des excentrements

Simau_0-1727193219646.jpeg

Simau_1-1727193257168.jpeg

 

 

 

M. Agayr
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nekreV92YU
Advocate
Advocate

bonjour, avec les excentrements plus la flexion locale (charges uniforme du fibro sur la membrure) c'est souvent difficile d'arriver à faire "passer" ce type de structure.

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Stephane.kapetanovic
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Mentor

hi @nekreV92YU 

oui mais si vous ne faites pas l'état de la capacité portante, avec ce qu'implique la conception d'origine et les transformations intervenues depuis, dans le cas d'une structure existante, comment pouvez vous apprécier son usage futur ? Il y a peut être des précautions à prendre et des recommandations à faire.

Cdt

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nekreV92YU
Advocate
Advocate

Bonjour, c'est un sujet compliqué car en temps qu'indépendant le fait de justifier une structure pour des nouvelles charges ou dans un état actuel , implique que j'engage ma garantie décennale . Alors en général j'essaye de faire passer la structure dans l'état d'origine avec les charges d'origines en prenant des fois les mêmes "raccourcis" ou de faire les mêmes impasses qu'a l'époque et après c'est une question d'appréciation personnelle, si les nouvelles charges sont trop importantes à mon gout par rapport à celles d'origines, je renforce . Si les nouvelles charges (des fois avec un peu de chance la neige a diminuée par rapport à la date de construction) sont sensiblement égales à celles d'origines je valide, mais c'est mon appréciation personnelle et j'engage ma responsabilité , ce qui pour un indépendant est lourd de conséquences  (financières) en cas de problème !. J'ai volontairement passé les détails de fonctionnement des structures concernées ou du moins des hypothèses prises à l'époque  car c'est aussi un sujet ou il faut faire "parler l'expérience" et des fois se rappeler l'époque ou les vérifications étaient faite par le calculateur à la main avec un crémona pour retrouver les hypothèses de l'époque..................vaste sujet et non moins vaste débat. Salutations

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Stephane.kapetanovic
Mentor
Mentor

Bonjour,

je comprends parfaitement votre point de vue. C'est celui d'un professionnel confronté à une structure d'une autre époque dans le cadre de travaux ponctuels ne modifiant pas la stabilité. Je crois que ce que nous en avons dit ici peut suffire en soit même. 

Dans ce cas, ce n'est pas tant la simplification intervenue à la fabrication (excentrement) qui semble être critique mais la stabilité d'origine et les transformations graduelles sur l'ouvrage, le point d'application réel des composantes de charges au regard de la position du centre de cisaillement et la pente de toiture sans liernes, le blocage des entraits et leur longueur libre, les accumulations de neige augmentées des effets des décrochés en élévation du vent, la poutre au vent et efforts associés, les épaisseurs des laminés hors standard, les pinces des diagonales et les défauts de perçage, le revêtement et sa fixation, les nouvelles charges, l'évolution normative,  etc. 

Cdt

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Simau
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Mentor

Pour revenir sur la notion de responsabilité soulevée par @nekreV92YU, ce type de mission doit être réalisée en 2 phases:

Une première expertise concernera à donner son avis sur la solidité de l'ouvrage compte tenu du :

  • changement de destination,
  • évolution de la règlementation
  • évolution des hypothèses : Vent, neige, séisme, ..

Une seconde mission, à la demande du client, consistera, moyennant des renforcements, à rendre l’ouvrage apte à reprendre les efforts selon son nouvel environnement. Encore faut-il que ces renforcements soient faisables et qu'ils valent la peine sans remettre en cause le budget du client.

M. Agayr
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nekreV92YU
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Advocate

bonjour, on est d'accord, seul problème , c'est que toutes ces choses s'apprennent au fil de l'expérience et c'est quelqu'un qui part en retraite cette fin d'année qui vous le dis..............

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manon_puel
Community Manager
Community Manager

Bonjour @anais_rochisX9KX4 

Merci d’avoir posé cette question sur nos forums ! La communauté a essayé de vous aider au mieux. Si des réponses vous paraissent appropriées, voulez vous avoir l'amabilité de cliquer sur le bouton  APPROUVER LA SOLUTION  en bas de la réponse qui apporte une solution?
Merci de ne pas accepter comme solution le message que vous êtes en train de lire.


Manon Puel animatrice de la communauté francophone
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manon_puel
Community Manager
Community Manager

Bonjour @anais_rochisX9KX4 

Je viens d'accepter certaines réponses de @Simau comme une solution, étant entendu que le problème est résolu. N'hésitez pas à me faire savoir si vous rencontrez d'autres problèmes.

La communauté Autodesk essaie d'offrir à ses membres autant d'informations que possible qui peuvent aider les membres ayant un problème similaire, nous construisons cette connaissance à travers les contributions de la communauté et de nos experts Autodesk. 

Je voulais souligner que si l'occasion se présente à nouveau, vous pouvez également cliquer sur le bouton « Accepter comme solution » si/quand c'est pertinent afin que d'autres puissent plus facilement bénéficier de l'information. 

N'hésitez pas à me faire part de vos questions ou de vos préoccupations ! Merci pour votre contribution.


Manon Puel animatrice de la communauté francophone
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We use G2Crowd to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by G2Crowd. Ads are based on both G2Crowd data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that G2Crowd has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to G2Crowd to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. G2Crowd Privacy Policy
NMPI Display
We use NMPI Display to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by NMPI Display. Ads are based on both NMPI Display data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that NMPI Display has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to NMPI Display to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. NMPI Display Privacy Policy
VK
We use VK to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by VK. Ads are based on both VK data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that VK has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to VK to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. VK Privacy Policy
Adobe Target
We use Adobe Target to test new features on our sites and customize your experience of these features. To do this, we collect behavioral data while you’re on our sites. This data may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, your IP address or device ID, your Autodesk ID, and others. You may experience a different version of our sites based on feature testing, or view personalized content based on your visitor attributes. Adobe Target Privacy Policy
Google Analytics (Advertising)
We use Google Analytics (Advertising) to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Google Analytics (Advertising). Ads are based on both Google Analytics (Advertising) data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Google Analytics (Advertising) has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Google Analytics (Advertising) to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Google Analytics (Advertising) Privacy Policy
Trendkite
We use Trendkite to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Trendkite. Ads are based on both Trendkite data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Trendkite has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Trendkite to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Trendkite Privacy Policy
Hotjar
We use Hotjar to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Hotjar. Ads are based on both Hotjar data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Hotjar has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Hotjar to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Hotjar Privacy Policy
6 Sense
We use 6 Sense to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by 6 Sense. Ads are based on both 6 Sense data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that 6 Sense has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to 6 Sense to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. 6 Sense Privacy Policy
Terminus
We use Terminus to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Terminus. Ads are based on both Terminus data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Terminus has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Terminus to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Terminus Privacy Policy
StackAdapt
We use StackAdapt to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by StackAdapt. Ads are based on both StackAdapt data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that StackAdapt has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to StackAdapt to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. StackAdapt Privacy Policy
The Trade Desk
We use The Trade Desk to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by The Trade Desk. Ads are based on both The Trade Desk data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that The Trade Desk has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to The Trade Desk to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. The Trade Desk Privacy Policy
RollWorks
We use RollWorks to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by RollWorks. Ads are based on both RollWorks data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that RollWorks has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to RollWorks to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. RollWorks Privacy Policy

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