Immediate and long term deflection as per ACI code On Robot

Immediate and long term deflection as per ACI code On Robot

mustafahesenow
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Message 1 of 20

Immediate and long term deflection as per ACI code On Robot

mustafahesenow
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Hi All,

1



Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
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Message 2 of 20

mustafahesenow
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Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
LinkedIn

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Message 3 of 20

Rafal.Gaweda
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

Hi @mustafahesenow

 

Regarding the Beam Parameter from member type definition

There is an issue in program code in this module. Need to be corrected by us.

 

 

Regarding Beam provided reinforcement :

Regarding 2 : send us model and your hand calcs



Rafal Gaweda
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Message 4 of 20

mustafahesenow
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Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
LinkedIn

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Message 5 of 20

Artur.Kosakowski
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

Hi @mustafahesenow

 

Could you explain how you exactly calculated the value indicated below?

 

DL value.jpg 



Artur Kosakowski
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Message 6 of 20

mustafahesenow
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Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
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Message 7 of 20

Artur.Kosakowski
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

Hi Mustafa,

 

I'm sorry for not being able to give you detailed reply faster but my knowledge of ACI  is limited and I needed to reach out for assistance Smiley Happy

 

1. My understanding is that you imported simple load cases but you used manually defined combinations in your hand calculations

 

1.jpg

 

2. My understanding is that you defined your own combination 1.0D + 0.5LL and you assumed is as long term (ACI: dead + sustained live load)

 

2.png

 

In Robot this is not possible to assign which combination is of which type.

 

3. In RSA sustained load is defined by its ratio to the  entire load and it is only possible in the stand alone mode of RC Beam design. If imported from a model all live loads are treated as long term.

 

3.JPG

 

4. There is difference in the formulas for fr between RSA and your hand calculations

 

4a.jpg4b.jpg

 

5. RSA calculates Ie from the middle of the beam rather than as the cleavage value which as far as I can read is 'considered satisfactory'.

 

5.jpg

 

6. For calculating cracked deflection Robot uses linear scaling u*E’I’/EI where E’I’ is the stiffness calculated with ACI formulas whwrwas you replaced EI with this value in the model and calculated the deflection running its static analysis. This may be difficult to be done for a large models and poses a question shall the change be done for the actually designed beam of all elements of a structure? 

 

I hope this helps.

 

If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.

 

P.S. I'll be travelling for the next 3 weeks so I have to postpone the analysis of your DAM topic till I'm back Smiley Sad

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Artur Kosakowski
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Message 8 of 20

mustafahesenow
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Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
LinkedIn

Message 9 of 20

Rafal.Gaweda
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

Hi @mustafahesenow

 

Thank you for your reply

 

 

Answer for question 6

 

A lot of engineering books says that deflection could be calculated in this way:

u = alpha*M*L^2/EI

where: alpha coefficient depends to loads and supports, M – moment, L - span length, EI – stiffness of element.

It's mean that if we change only EI to E’I’ the finial deflection could be calculated as:

u’ = u*EI/E’I’

Our calculation based on this assumption. We take u and EI from static analysis and calculate new E’I’ based on code requirements. At the end, we multiply original deflection u by ratio EI/E'I'.

Calculation based on this assumption are enough accurate but not identical with static analysis with new E'I'.

 

 

The rest of your points are qualified by dev team as needed improvements or software issue.

I will inform you separately.



Rafal Gaweda
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Message 10 of 20

mustafahesenow
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Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
LinkedIn

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Message 11 of 20

Artur.Kosakowski
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

Hi @mustafahesenow

 

It is E*I with creep and cracks taken into account.

 

I hope this helps.

 

If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.



Artur Kosakowski
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Message 12 of 20

mustafahesenow
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Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
LinkedIn

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Message 13 of 20

Artur.Kosakowski
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

Hi @mustafahesenow

 

It is in the hands of the RSA development team.  I do understand that you would like to an update but all I can promise is that I will post it the moment i have any new information. 



Artur Kosakowski
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Message 14 of 20

mustafahesenow
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Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
LinkedIn

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Message 15 of 20

Anonymous
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Hello @mustafahesenow, I tried to compare a same rc beam section in rsa with another program and I have the same problem because RSA is giving a much higher long deflections. Did you find out what is the problem ? 

Thank You.

Message 16 of 20

Anonymous
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.. ...
Message 17 of 20

saclovitzky
Collaborator
Collaborator

It is really a pain using "any" structural analysis/design package in designing reinforced concrete members.

It is always the issues of reinforcement areas and long term deflections.

Most of the time, I designed using other packages(specifically for designing rc members) for peace of mind.

 

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Message 18 of 20

Anonymous
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Hi @mustafahesenow 

Have you tested the version 2020 of robot towards these issues? Is there any update regarding the topic or the issues still stand unsolved? and I think If the design is performed using the BS-8110 same issues still appear, Is that correct?

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Message 19 of 20

Anonymous
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Hi Mr. @Artur.Kosakowski  

Kindly, Are the issues regarding this topic included in the hotfix for 2019 (see picture attached) or 2020 versions? Is there any update on the issues?

Message 20 of 20

saclovitzky
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Collaborator

Is this sorted already in RSAP 2022?

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