Call for feedback : Dynamo & Robot

[pawelpiechnik]

Hi

We would like to invite you to share some feedback and/or requirements that you would have for driving Robot with Dynamo. What do (would) you need it for? What does need to be there (e.g. dedicated nodes) to support the workflows you are looking for?

Please share your feedback and contribute to the future of Robot

thank you in advance

Pawel

[zeeblake]

Robot is a great software, but it makes little sense to worry about the Dynamo link without finishing very important pending things before.

For example: The documentation doesn't explain things in a detailed-enough way (it's just a brief explanation of each GUI control, but there's absolutely NO documentation on what's implemented and what's not for each national code --mean you: I started a project with RC walls and I got the surprise that the only way for designing them was to choose the French EC2 code --and I realized after getting a cryptic message error, looking for it at the forums, and reading that the reason was that you need to choose the French EC2 --important things like this SHOULD be documented!!).

Another example: Global buckling analysis is undocumented. The only way for understanding it is to read research papers on global buckling and try to relate the formulas on the paper to the settings used by Robot... that's not serious, we should have detailed information on the algorithms and calculations really used.

Generating RC drawings is not practical: Are you supposed to export drawings one by one if, for example, you have 200 RC drawings? Why not automate this process within the printout composition, or with a similarly convenient approach?

BTW, the reinforcement of waffle slabs cannot be designed by Robot. It's a very common type of slab, so this should have high priority.

The RC reinforcement modules look like external apps, they look untidy: If you call the RC provided reinforcement module several times, it keeps the stuff you did in previous invocations, but in a weird way (sometimes you cannot modify previous stuff, and you need to delete it from the RC tree and create it again). The windows for provided reinforcement, required reinforcement, slabs punching, etc, are interconnected in a very confusing way... really confusing.

Maybe some of these points would be already solved if there was a good book showing how to use Robot for doing the complete design (with all the structural drawings) of a real-life building, for each of the materials supported: Steel, RC, Timber. But no such a book exists.

Fire checking in timber (EC5): Really confusing to enable the check (you need to manually type the number for the combination called "FIRE", or otherwise it won't work, and you won't get even a warning about it --if you choose "FIRE+" or "FIRE-" it won't work, it must be only the one combination called "FIRE" --again: this is not documented).

Timber joints: Some kind of timber joint design should be there, even if it's only very basic joint types.

Another very important thing is that, even if you have a lot of experience in structural design, it's very easy to forget to do important checks with Robot, because there's no button for checking that there are no pending errors in the structure (imagine this: you generate the provided reinforcement for columns, and even generate the drawings for them, but then there's an error on slabs, and you fix it but then you have to calculate the structure again: this would imply to regenerate the provided reinforcement for columns again, but you are not warned about it... and, in case a new problem appears in columns and you fix it, you have no way for knowing if the new fix affects other RC elements --at the end, is easy to get confused, lose the orientation, and end up with the wrong drawings for design: this risk should be minimized, with a better cleaner design of the RC modules).

Lots of things need to be implemented in some national codes.

So, to your question: I don't need Dynamo because I really need to have all these other issues improved before (how can I be interested in connecting Robot with Dynamo if the use of Robot for everyday structures is not properly supported in a practical way --or at least not documented? )

I hope I wasn't harsh, I truly believe this should be said, because Robot is a great tool, and I would love to see it shine.

[m_sheinin]

Hi

I would like to have more load options not only Uniform Member Loads. Also it will be great to have design capabilities as well.  Then you can actually do optimization. 

Thanks,

Mike 

[1234eddie]

Hi all,

Check out these topics.

https://forum.dynamobim.com/t/loads-are-duplicated-in-second-run-and-keeps-adding-in-n-times-run-api... 

https://forum.dynamobim.com/t/dynamo-draw-solids-from-coordinates/40184/16

https://forum.dynamobim.com/t/dynamo-and-rsa-define-load-combinations/26777/5

https://forum.dynamobim.com/t/surface-load/43061/5

What i would like to see:

- support for solids.

- more load types

- creation of load combination.

[wassim_said_said]

Dear All,

 First Thank you for this opportunity to share our ideas concerning Dynamo within Robot.

1-Why not using the same capacity of Dynamo in Revit specialty for the connection automatic script generation. It    will be great! (more connection module and code design).

2-The generation of the RC drawings should be automatic as dwg format to be compatible with Autocad after all the 

   related software for the RC detailing were stopped by Autodesk and the only way is to export  the model from 

  Robot  to Revit and generate the reinforcements details within Revit. But what if we are not familiar with Revit? There is no way to generate the RC drawings in a professional way for Autocad.

3-Parametric structures should be implanted using Dynamo (Pylone, Elevated Tank, Typical buildings....).

These are some ideas I have in mind but the capacity of using Dynamo in a practical and easy manner within RSA should give great capacity to the software.

I Hope to have these improvements in the next versions of RSA.

Best regards,

Wassim Said

[StefanoPasquini6790]

Hi @pawelpiechnik ,

I completely agree with the reply of @wassim_said_said , and unfortunately with all the posts of @m_sheinin , @1234eddie  and @zeeblake .

Improve rc module in a more contemporary way, even with the use of dynamo, is a fundamental thing.....

Anyway, in my office we use often Rhinoceros and Grasshopper, that is really powerfull...it could be a good idea to create a kind of translator of the grasshopper projects in to dynamo ones...they are both written in python...it can be called Rynamo...

Best regards

[pawelpiechnik]

Thank you @zeeblake for your feedback. I'm taking it as 'there are other priorities for me, other than dynamo based automation".  It is a valid response and thank you for sharing the details as we take prioritization for the scope of work for Robot quite holistically. Still, there are many demands for Dynamo that we hear from users and this is why I wanted to engage the community to give a deeper dive into this as well.

referring to your quetsion: have you seen this book for Robot ? is this close to your expectations ?https://www.amazon.com/Autodesk-Robot-Structural-Analysis-Professional-ebook/dp/B00IH0K2X0

regards.

Pawel

[pawelpiechnik]

HI@1234eddie , thank you for this.

How would you describe the worklfow(s) (purposes)  that you would like to get working with Dynamo scripts enabled by these features ?

regards

Pawel

[m_sheinin]

The workflow that I have in mind is :

1. Get Arch boundaries from the Revit. 

2. Build a structural model in Dynamo. 

3. Send it to analyses and design to Robot. 

4. Get results back from Robot ( Capacities, weight, deflection ... ) <- everything that you need to decide.

5. Change structural parameters and run again. 

6. When are you happy with the design, build a preliminary model in the Revit (using dynamo).

7. Send the Revit model to Team evaluation.   

With tools we have today I can do only ( 1,2, 5,6,7 ). Steps 2 and 4 we can achieve using other tools like Custom Nodes and more.

That why I think it super important for me to have the option to build a proper model in Robot using Dynamo and get Design results back. 

[pawelpiechnik]

thank you @m_sheinin . I hear you

Pawel

[zeeblake]

---

@pawelpiechnik wrote:

[...] referring to your question: have you seen this book for Robot ? is this close to your expectations ?https://www.amazon.com/Autodesk-Robot-Structural-Analysis-Professional-ebook/dp/B00IH0K2X0

regards.

Pawel

---

Unfortunately, Pawel, that book is just about the essentials, and doesn't cover any of the topics I would need. For example:

• Efficient workflow for the complete structural project of usual buildings (ie: how are you supposed to use Robot for generating all the drawings for a 10-story building, with hundreds of RC beams, hundreds of RC columns, hundreds of RC slabs, hundreds of RC walls, hundreds of footings,...). I suppose there must be an efficient workflow for designing the final RC drawings of usual buildings, but I have not seen it explained anywhere (the closest I saw are some YouTube "tutorials" from fans, but they just show you how to get the drawings for one column, one beam, one slab, one footing, so they stop at the point where things were starting to become interesting). Note that in real buildings you usually want to optimize your drawings (a good professor I had used to say that usually, the less number of drawings, the better the design). A efficient use of Robot for minimizing the number of drawings for a complete RC structure is totally undocumented (provided that it can be done).
• Practical application of global buckling analysis for steel structures. All what I saw (again, in YouTube clips from fans) is just an academic-like application of global buckling. But a practical workflow for a real project (from the initial modeling to the final drawings, considering global buckling analysis in the process) is totally missing.
• Proper explanation of what's implemented on which codes is also missing (ie: it would be welcome to know that you need to choose the French Eurocode -and not the Eurocode from any other country- if you have RC walls).
• A detailed explanation of how could you use Robot for designing slabs not directly supported by the program (such as waffle slabs, hollow core slabs, precast RC joists with hollow blocks, composite slabs, CLT timber panel slabs, etc.). Apparently, Robot does let you define such kind of slabs for considering the correct stiffness of the members in the FEM analysis, but their design is not completely supported, so I would need a detailed explanation showing how to use the results from Robot for designing the reinforcement (or for choosing the panels from the provider catalogs).
• Detailed explanation of how to check that the buckling settings of your columns is on the safe side for the building you are designing. In particular, the "automatic buckling length" for frame-based buildings, sometimes gives surprising results and then you feel that "cold sweat" of not knowing what you are doing (yes, I did read the calculations performed by the method). A real-world experience showing the best way you are supposed to use Robot for buckling in columns for real buildings would be necessary (hint: I don't want to see how it's done with the GUI, we have that in the webinars --what I want is the authoritative word from engineers really using Robot for their structural projects, and giving an authoritative advice in the lines of "before you consider your RC columns drawings done, check twice that these buckling-related values are below this limit, or that the settings are specified in this way", for example).
• Sustainability is pushing the use of timber in some locations. Again, an explanation showing the complete workflow for the complete design of a timber structure for a real building in Robot would be necessary.
• Explanation for the efficient workflow for steel joints design on steel structures for big buildings.

The book you mention doesn't cover any of these topics. I'm not criticizing the book because it does deliver what it promises (the essentials, as the title says), but another book is really needed (or perhaps more than one book, because I don't think all these topics fit in one book).

For example, one book showing you a real application of Robot for the complete workflow for the project of a 10-story hotel (and parking basement) with RC structure, from beginning to end, and with all the final drawings needed for the construction.

Another book showing you the complete project of a steel building, with Robot.

And another one for a timber structure.

[zeeblake]

---

(continuing as a new post because the edit time limit expired)

As certain examples that what I'm saying can actually be done, you can take a look at these books (in Spanish, and for another software, but they are a great example of what I'm missing in Robot):

This book shows how to perform a complete design for a several-stories housing building, from planning, to modeling, to checking, teaching you how to fix errors in members that don't pass the verifications, generating all the drawings, etc, etc, etc: https://www.anayamultimedia.es/libro.php?id=3274593

And this other book (does the same for a steel structure): https://www.anayamultimedia.es/libro.php?id=3607845

They are not written by developers, nor the software house, but by an architect talking about his experience using the software for his own projects, so they are great books.

I would need to have books like those, but for Robot.

This is what I find most missing at the moment.

[gustavo_c_vasconcellos]

I really agree with:

2-The generation of the RC drawings should be automatic as dwg format to be compatible with Autocad after all the 

   related software for the RC detailing were stopped by Autodesk and the only way is to export  the model from 

  Robot  to Revit and generate the reinforcements details within Revit. But what if we are not familiar with Revit? There is no way to generate the RC drawings in a professional way for Autocad.

There should be a way to generate the RC drawings  in bigger formats (A0 and A1)

Thanks

Gustavo

[okapawal]

Dynamo is now seamlessly integrated into Robot Structural Analysis Professional 2021 with the Dynamo Extension for Robot Structural Analysis. This extension  is available through the Autodesk Feedback Community

This extension comes with the Structural Analysis Dynamo package containing nodes dedicated to Robot Structural Analysis program. The primary objective given the scope of capabilities is for Structural Engineers to use the new nodes to automate modeling tasks:

• create an analytical model
• apply section shapes
• apply boundary conditions
• create loads.

This new feature enhances the productivity of structural engineers and allows them to iterate through design options faster and more fluidly.

Once Dynamo Extension is installed you can run the Dynamo Extension from Add-ins > Dynamo command in Robot Structural Analysis 2021.

[StefanoPasquini6790]

thank you @okapawal 

I will have a look next days, anyway this is a great news!

have a nice day