Upgrading from Revit 2023 to 2025

[farshidkaviani]

Hi there,

I have an electrical model in a running project that was created in Revit 2023. For some reason, I need to upgrade it to Revit 2025. The process only shows two warnings regarding two families that could be resolved with a few hours of rework. However, the consultant claims that there are many other issues in their model after upgrading that Revit does not show any warnings or errors for. Consequently, they want to charge our company for many extra hours.

I was wondering if such a claim can be legitimate. Could there be issues in the model after upgrading to a new version that Revit does not show any warnings or errors for?

I would be very grateful if you could help me understand if such an issue could be legitimate or not.

I appreciate your help and time in advance.

Best regards,
Fasrhid

[farshidkaviani]

Hi there,

I have an electrical model in a running project that was created in Revit 2023. For some reason, I need to upgrade it to Revit 2025. The process only shows two warnings regarding two families that could be resolved with a few hours of rework. However, the consultant claims that there are many other issues in their model after upgrading that Revit does not show any warnings or errors for. Consequently, they want to charge our company for many extra hours.

I was wondering if such a claim can be legitimate. Could there be issues in the model after upgrading to a new version that Revit does not show any warnings or errors for?

I would be very grateful if you could help me understand if such an issue could be legitimate or not.

I appreciate your help and time in advance.

Best regards,
Fasrhid

[RSomppi]

It's considered good practice to NOT upgrade a project because it can cause issues and additional man-hours. The issue IS legitimate and you may be contractually obligated to pay for those hours.

[RSomppi]

It's considered good practice to NOT upgrade a project because it can cause issues and additional man-hours. The issue IS legitimate and you may be contractually obligated to pay for those hours.

[farshidkaviani]

Thank you so much for your response. I think I may have failed to explain the issue enough, the question is not about if we have to pay them, but how many hours we have to pay.
As far as I see there are only 2 warnings and errors in two of the families, and it is clear we have to pay for that, but they claim that there are other issues caused in the model after upgrading Revit does not show any warnings or errors!
My question is actually if this claim can be true that there could be issues caused by upgrading that Revit will not show any warnings for.

[farshidkaviani]

Thank you so much for your response. I think I may have failed to explain the issue enough, the question is not about if we have to pay them, but how many hours we have to pay.
As far as I see there are only 2 warnings and errors in two of the families, and it is clear we have to pay for that, but they claim that there are other issues caused in the model after upgrading Revit does not show any warnings or errors!
My question is actually if this claim can be true that there could be issues caused by upgrading that Revit will not show any warnings for.

[iainsavage]

Get them to list the errors that they say they've found.

Upgrading can often cause systems to disconnect and system data to be corrupted (at least that's my experience with pipework and ductwork. Don't know about electrical systems.)

Who insisted that you had to upgrade?

Would an IFC export from the uncorrupted 2023 version suit their needs?

[iainsavage]

Get them to list the errors that they say they've found.

Upgrading can often cause systems to disconnect and system data to be corrupted (at least that's my experience with pipework and ductwork. Don't know about electrical systems.)

Who insisted that you had to upgrade?

Would an IFC export from the uncorrupted 2023 version suit their needs?

[farshidkaviani]

Thanks again. I have also the same experience with pipe and duct systems which is why I found the claim a bit strange as you will always get a warning for disconnections, errors in the families, etc.
The issue is that the company did not have any BIM consultant until now, and they have two different design consultants for two different projects that are supposed to use the same versions of Revit but since there was no one to control their work internally then they ended up using different versions. The upper version can not go backward and therefore we decided to upgrade the lower version. The IFC could work if we only needed the geometries, but a lot of data would be lost and we might need them afterward.

[farshidkaviani]

Thanks again. I have also the same experience with pipe and duct systems which is why I found the claim a bit strange as you will always get a warning for disconnections, errors in the families, etc.
The issue is that the company did not have any BIM consultant until now, and they have two different design consultants for two different projects that are supposed to use the same versions of Revit but since there was no one to control their work internally then they ended up using different versions. The upper version can not go backward and therefore we decided to upgrade the lower version. The IFC could work if we only needed the geometries, but a lot of data would be lost and we might need them afterward.

[HVAC-Novice]

Without  "seeing" the model, no one here can tell.

Resolving 2 warnings shouldn't take long. But we don't know what the exact nature is. How many warnings were before the upgrade?

When I hire consultants, I write in the contract that they have to upgrade when I do. So any fixing is on them. IME, a cleaner model causes fewer such issues. 

How do you know they don't cheat you and just bill you many hours that you never can verify? You don't. That is why you include upgrades in their base fee if you plan to upgrade.

[HVAC-Novice]

Without  "seeing" the model, no one here can tell.

Resolving 2 warnings shouldn't take long. But we don't know what the exact nature is. How many warnings were before the upgrade?

When I hire consultants, I write in the contract that they have to upgrade when I do. So any fixing is on them. IME, a cleaner model causes fewer such issues. 

How do you know they don't cheat you and just bill you many hours that you never can verify? You don't. That is why you include upgrades in their base fee if you plan to upgrade.

[RSomppi]

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@farshidkaviani wrote:

My question is actually if this claim can be true that there could be issues caused by upgrading that Revit will not show any warnings for.

---

Absolutely, yes!

I've been on the receiving end of unforeseen upgrades. One that I know of was because someone upgraded the project by accident. It can be a major headache, especially if the company isn't using the newer version for any projects and needs to install it and upgrade content. I wouldn't ask them to start itemizing everything as the upcharge will probably increase because of the itemization. Be careful that what you ask for might cause even more additional work.

You said, "For some reason, I need to upgrade it to Revit 2025." Out of curiosity, what was that reason?

[RSomppi]

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@farshidkaviani wrote:

My question is actually if this claim can be true that there could be issues caused by upgrading that Revit will not show any warnings for.

---

Absolutely, yes!

I've been on the receiving end of unforeseen upgrades. One that I know of was because someone upgraded the project by accident. It can be a major headache, especially if the company isn't using the newer version for any projects and needs to install it and upgrade content. I wouldn't ask them to start itemizing everything as the upcharge will probably increase because of the itemization. Be careful that what you ask for might cause even more additional work.

You said, "For some reason, I need to upgrade it to Revit 2025." Out of curiosity, what was that reason?

[farshidkaviani]

I completely agree with you but unfortunately, I was not involved in the team before it was too late.

[farshidkaviani]

I completely agree with you but unfortunately, I was not involved in the team before it was too late.

[RSomppi]

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@HVAC-Novice wrote:

That is why you include upgrades in their base fee if you plan to upgrade.

---

Who wants to pay a premium for something that might not happen? That is why the contracts and BEPs on the other side of the coin often state the Revit version. There can be a lot of avoidable work for arbitrary upgrades. Upgrades should only happen when necessary because they do come with a cost.

[RSomppi]

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@HVAC-Novice wrote:

That is why you include upgrades in their base fee if you plan to upgrade.

---

Who wants to pay a premium for something that might not happen? That is why the contracts and BEPs on the other side of the coin often state the Revit version. There can be a lot of avoidable work for arbitrary upgrades. Upgrades should only happen when necessary because they do come with a cost.

[HVAC-Novice]

It is debatable if you want to upgrade. Each company or design team has to decide that for themselves. That decision is already made for the OP.

But if you plan to upgrade, it is cheaper to make that clear in the beginning. When we hire consultants, that process is competitive. But if you have a change order later, they can charge whatever they want. Because, where else are you going to get a quote from for that? It cost $1 to add in the beginning, but for some reason it cost $100 to add it later. 

MY situation is different from most. I only use one version at a time for all projects. Because, if I create a new family, schedule or tag for Project A, I can easily implement that for all my other projects that still are in design if that change enhances the design. But my projects are small and I'm mainly alone except for some structural engineer or similar I hire. YOUR situation may be different and not upgrading may make more sense. There isn't a right or wrong. 

[HVAC-Novice]

It is debatable if you want to upgrade. Each company or design team has to decide that for themselves. That decision is already made for the OP.

But if you plan to upgrade, it is cheaper to make that clear in the beginning. When we hire consultants, that process is competitive. But if you have a change order later, they can charge whatever they want. Because, where else are you going to get a quote from for that? It cost $1 to add in the beginning, but for some reason it cost $100 to add it later. 

MY situation is different from most. I only use one version at a time for all projects. Because, if I create a new family, schedule or tag for Project A, I can easily implement that for all my other projects that still are in design if that change enhances the design. But my projects are small and I'm mainly alone except for some structural engineer or similar I hire. YOUR situation may be different and not upgrading may make more sense. There isn't a right or wrong. 

[RSomppi]

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@HVAC-Novice wrote:

MY situation is different from most. 

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If you are aware of that, maybe you should not be giving advice based on your situation. MY advice is given based on experience in various workflows and seeing what works and doesn't work from a production point of view. I have suffered from many unexpected upgrades. They don't affect the money in my pockets but they do take time from other tasks that are much more important.

[RSomppi]

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@HVAC-Novice wrote:

MY situation is different from most. 

---

If you are aware of that, maybe you should not be giving advice based on your situation. MY advice is given based on experience in various workflows and seeing what works and doesn't work from a production point of view. I have suffered from many unexpected upgrades. They don't affect the money in my pockets but they do take time from other tasks that are much more important.

[iainsavage · Accepted solution]

As I said earlier ask them to list all of the errors which they claim to have found.

[iainsavage · Accepted solution]

As I said earlier ask them to list all of the errors which they claim to have found.

[robert2JCCH · Accepted solution]

Can the issues the consultant is describing (undocumented issues in conversion) happen? Yes.

Does it happen? Yes, but often depending on which versions of Revit, existing model quality, etc....numerous factors.

Do the users on this Autodesk help forum know all the ways something can go wrong in an upgrade that don't show up on warnings? No.

Can the time claim be legitimate? Maybe.

Interpret the request in the way you would interpret a change order. A change order should be itemized. Nature of work, labor-hours per task. 

There's all sorts of things that can go wrong, and they need to clearly advocate for their time.

If they itemize their work and you still disagree with their time consumption, that's not something a bunch of product users on the internet can assist with, except provide opinions based on anecdotal experience. And we only know as much about the situation as you're allowed/willing to divulge.

[robert2JCCH · Accepted solution]

Can the issues the consultant is describing (undocumented issues in conversion) happen? Yes.

Does it happen? Yes, but often depending on which versions of Revit, existing model quality, etc....numerous factors.

Do the users on this Autodesk help forum know all the ways something can go wrong in an upgrade that don't show up on warnings? No.

Can the time claim be legitimate? Maybe.

Interpret the request in the way you would interpret a change order. A change order should be itemized. Nature of work, labor-hours per task. 

There's all sorts of things that can go wrong, and they need to clearly advocate for their time.

If they itemize their work and you still disagree with their time consumption, that's not something a bunch of product users on the internet can assist with, except provide opinions based on anecdotal experience. And we only know as much about the situation as you're allowed/willing to divulge.

[RSomppi]

You're welcome.

[RSomppi]

You're welcome.