Rise Drop Symbol issues.

[hmunsell]

Attached are 3 examples of Rise Drop symbols in 3 different files.

• Project 1 is a project file made for the out of the box Mechanical template. And works as expected
• 

• Rise-Drop with Stub is a 2020 file made from our corporate project template. The Nub on the outside of the Rise/Drop symbol is the Tick of the elbow. But only one of the ticks seems to be causing the issue.

      

• Rise-drop (2017) is a test I did to see if it happens in 2017. As you can see the elbows is displaying thru the symbol. Normally the elbow is not visible and you only see the symbol like in Project 1

    

these are are all using the Elbow-Generic-Standard family. I have been futzing with this all day now and cant figure out what is causing the inconsistencies.

[hmunsell]

I know I always ask for them when I'm helping someone, so here are the models too.... 

[dmiller_SCE · Accepted solution]

Look at your pipe settings under mechanical settings. I have noticed in Revit 2020 that when the values for the "Pipe Fitting Annotation Size" and the "Pipe Rise/ Drop Annotation" size are different you get unwanted graphical issues like this in some scenarios.  I have also noticed that it only happens in fittings that fall in the vertical pipe that the annotation scaling doesn't work properly.  If you Notice checking and unchecking the Use Annotation Scale doesn't change the length of the nub.  You see a change in the length of the fitting along the horizontal pipe but not the nub in the vertical pipe going down stays the same length. If you take the out of box Revit file and change the pipe settings to match your template file you will get the same result.  

[hmunsell]

the one thing I didn't check, figures. i checked the settings initially but noting looked unusual. i had been focusing on the family itself since some elbow's families seemed to function normal and others didn't. but that seemed to resolve the issue. 

now i have to break it to the engineer that the rise/drop and the fitting cant be different scales. That definitely needs to get fixed.... 

[dmiller_SCE]

@hmunsell  I would also like to mention that changing the annotation settings will fix a lot of the issues but it is not a fix-all solution. You will see in Revit 2020 items in the vertical pipes do not behave as previous releases. For example, P-traps will not annotatively scale correctly. I have noticed that pipe fittings/ accessories will only scale annotatively correctly when items are placed in the same orientation as the plan in which the symbolic/model lines are placed in the family. Normally the reference plan has the fitting/accessories in the horizontal position. In the Revit file when the element are placed in the vertical position, the annotative scaling and graphics do not appear to behave correctly.  In the image, the P-trap on the left has the "Use Annotation Scale" unchecked and the right P-traps are checked to "Use Annotation Scale. Notice the two P-traps placed in the horizontal position clear scale different. However, the P-traps placed vertical show as the same scale despite each checked differently with the Use Annotation Scale.  the only modification out of box p-trap family is I  changed the category to pipe fitting. 

[hmunsell]

yep... I have escalated the ticket to Autodesk support, so hopefully they will look at it and have a patch to fix these issues. ill have to take a min today and open 2021 to see if the issue is present there as well. 

[dmiller_SCE]

@hmunsell looks like your initial issue with the stub is resolved in the 2020.2.3 Hot Fix I just installed today. Some of the graphical problems were resolved. However, not all problems have been fixed; for example, the P-tap issue persists.  

https://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2020/ENU/?guid=RevitReleaseNotes_2020updates_2020_2_3_html 

[hmunsell]

good to know. i saw that come out the other week but hadn't had a chance to install it yet. I've been exceptionally busy the past couple weeks :-).

[ay_dmagill]

Is there documentation available explaining the mechanics of how to set up a family to properly work with annotation scale? We are running into the same issue and would like to ensure that any pipe fittings that we produce internally will work in a similar fashion.

[RobDraw]

I don't think any documentation would help with this ongoing issue with rise/drop symbols. They've been a moving target. It's been a while since I played with them but every time I thought I had the right combination of settings, something came along that didn't work. I think that the first hand knowledge from the users here and lots of testing is the best approach.

[ay_dmagill]

Well, I am glad to know that I share that experience with someone else.

I thought I had a full understanding of it in Revit 2013, then in 2014. After 2014, it seemed to have a fairly stable behavior pattern (with the families that had been adjusted in R2014), until Revit 2020, in which our p-traps suddenly began a new behavior.

Thank you for the quick response @RobDraw. I will make sure to add any context I discover to this thread, as we move forward.

[aris.aquino]

Having the pipe rise/drop annotation size and fitting the same did not work for me.

For some reason both drop/rise only show what single line drop symbol is set to.

Any other areas I can look at to resolve this issue in Revit 2018.3.3.18?

Thanks,

[aris.aquino]

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles...

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles...

This is similar to the issue we are having. If riser does not go past the top range it does not show the desired rise symbol.

[fabiosato]

Hello,

Controlling the view range may be the only option, it is a known issue.