Mechanical equipment splits piping system and is part of both piping systems

[anna.dunn282X2]

Hi All,

Please help me to find the problem.

I am modelling the pipework in the plantroom with some mechanical equipment, pipe accessories, pipe fittings and pipes. All of the above and the piping system are custom made and use to work perfectly in the past.

the problem is the mechanical equipment (commercial strainer in my case) 'assigns' itself to 2 piping systems.

I need it to be one system!

I have attached couple of screenshots and and the model.

[anna.dunn282X2]

Hi All,

Please help me to find the problem.

I am modelling the pipework in the plantroom with some mechanical equipment, pipe accessories, pipe fittings and pipes. All of the above and the piping system are custom made and use to work perfectly in the past.

the problem is the mechanical equipment (commercial strainer in my case) 'assigns' itself to 2 piping systems.

I need it to be one system!

I have attached couple of screenshots and and the model.

[iainsavage · Accepted solution]

You've got the connecters set as "Other". You should change them to "Global".

I would also question whether the family should be mechanical equipment - I would tend to make it a Pipe Accessory.

[iainsavage · Accepted solution]

You've got the connecters set as "Other". You should change them to "Global".

I would also question whether the family should be mechanical equipment - I would tend to make it a Pipe Accessory.

[anna.dunn282X2]

Thank you for the reply. It worked. Well... Partially.

In the model I shared here I have changed the connector type as per your advice but in the my model, I had to purge out and audit flange, butterfly valve and strainer families then reintroduce them back into the main model before it worked. 

Also, I followed your advice and changed the strainer from being Mechanical Equipment category to Pipe Fitting category.

However I am still battling the same issue while adding a pump to the same run. The pump family is Mechanical Equipment. The connectors are set as Global. I have added more screenshots. It looks like the issue is specifically about Mechanical Equipment Families. Not sure what to think about it. 

PS Pump Family has been purged from the model, audited are re-introduced to the model.

[anna.dunn282X2]

Thank you for the reply. It worked. Well... Partially.

In the model I shared here I have changed the connector type as per your advice but in the my model, I had to purge out and audit flange, butterfly valve and strainer families then reintroduce them back into the main model before it worked. 

Also, I followed your advice and changed the strainer from being Mechanical Equipment category to Pipe Fitting category.

However I am still battling the same issue while adding a pump to the same run. The pump family is Mechanical Equipment. The connectors are set as Global. I have added more screenshots. It looks like the issue is specifically about Mechanical Equipment Families. Not sure what to think about it. 

PS Pump Family has been purged from the model, audited are re-introduced to the model.

[iainsavage]

I don't understand your reference to having to delete, purge and re-add items.

Probably what has happened is that initially systems have been created (of classification "Other") and when you've reloaded the items with Global connectors those "Other" systems have been retained (because Global would not force a change to any particular system type).

You should however be able to delete the unwanted systems (not the pipework, the systems) - you can select them by tab-select until the tooltip shows that the system has been highlighted, or you can select them from the system browser (F9).

Note that "Other" classification is usually used for things like fuel gas, refrigerant lines etc. From your screenshots it looks like you would be better using Hydronic systems or Domestic systems.

Also note that although there are some grey areas "Equipment" usually means things like boilers, chillers, air handling units, fans, pumps, tanks, heat emitters, VAV boxes  etc.

Valves, dampers, filters, strainers and so on would usually be Pipe Accessories or Duct Accessories. 

If you look in the Autodesk content libraries it will give you clues as to how to classify families.

[iainsavage]

I don't understand your reference to having to delete, purge and re-add items.

Probably what has happened is that initially systems have been created (of classification "Other") and when you've reloaded the items with Global connectors those "Other" systems have been retained (because Global would not force a change to any particular system type).

You should however be able to delete the unwanted systems (not the pipework, the systems) - you can select them by tab-select until the tooltip shows that the system has been highlighted, or you can select them from the system browser (F9).

Note that "Other" classification is usually used for things like fuel gas, refrigerant lines etc. From your screenshots it looks like you would be better using Hydronic systems or Domestic systems.

Also note that although there are some grey areas "Equipment" usually means things like boilers, chillers, air handling units, fans, pumps, tanks, heat emitters, VAV boxes  etc.

Valves, dampers, filters, strainers and so on would usually be Pipe Accessories or Duct Accessories. 

If you look in the Autodesk content libraries it will give you clues as to how to classify families.

[anna.dunn282X2]

---

@iainsavage wrote:

I don't understand your reference to having to delete, purge and re-add items.

Probably what has happened is that initially systems have been created (of classification "Other") and when you've reloaded the items with Global connectors those "Other" systems have been retained (because Global would not force a change to any particular system type).

---

In my main model, not the part model I posted, I have changed all the connectors to be Global, but still experienced the problem described above until I ''purged/audited and changed category to PA and reintroduced'' the families.

---

@iainsavage wrote:

You should however be able to delete the unwanted systems (not the pipework, the systems) - you can select them by tab-select until the tooltip shows that the system has been highlighted, or you can select them from the system browser (F9).

---

I do that, but when I try introducing the system back into the pipework run, the system stops after the pump, the flange and a pipe after the pump remain undefined or if I try to introduce the system into the pipework after the pump, then starts pump starts carrying 2 systems.

---

@iainsavage wrote:

Note that "Other" classification is usually used for things like fuel gas, refrigerant lines etc. From your screenshots it looks like you would be better using Hydronic systems or Domestic systems.

I checked my FEATIRE PIPEWORK SYSTEM was a copy of Other Piping System, so I made a copy of Domestic Cold Water and called it FEATUTE PIPEWORK. But it didn't help. My pump still carries 2 systems in it. Grrr...

Thank you for trying to help.

[anna.dunn282X2]

---

@iainsavage wrote:

I don't understand your reference to having to delete, purge and re-add items.

Probably what has happened is that initially systems have been created (of classification "Other") and when you've reloaded the items with Global connectors those "Other" systems have been retained (because Global would not force a change to any particular system type).

---

In my main model, not the part model I posted, I have changed all the connectors to be Global, but still experienced the problem described above until I ''purged/audited and changed category to PA and reintroduced'' the families.

---

@iainsavage wrote:

You should however be able to delete the unwanted systems (not the pipework, the systems) - you can select them by tab-select until the tooltip shows that the system has been highlighted, or you can select them from the system browser (F9).

---

I do that, but when I try introducing the system back into the pipework run, the system stops after the pump, the flange and a pipe after the pump remain undefined or if I try to introduce the system into the pipework after the pump, then starts pump starts carrying 2 systems.

---

@iainsavage wrote:

Note that "Other" classification is usually used for things like fuel gas, refrigerant lines etc. From your screenshots it looks like you would be better using Hydronic systems or Domestic systems.

I checked my FEATIRE PIPEWORK SYSTEM was a copy of Other Piping System, so I made a copy of Domestic Cold Water and called it FEATUTE PIPEWORK. But it didn't help. My pump still carries 2 systems in it. Grrr...

Thank you for trying to help.

[anna.dunn282X2]

I think I managed to fix it. I can't explain the underlying issue. what I did is:

1) removed the pump

2) connected flanges on either side of the pump so the run became one system

3) dragged one flange away from the other creating the gap making sure the system is still intact 

4) added the pump back in and connected flanges to either side of the pump

Only in this order the systems stays connected and mechanical equipment belongs to that one system

OMG It should not be that difficult! 

[anna.dunn282X2]

I think I managed to fix it. I can't explain the underlying issue. what I did is:

1) removed the pump

2) connected flanges on either side of the pump so the run became one system

3) dragged one flange away from the other creating the gap making sure the system is still intact 

4) added the pump back in and connected flanges to either side of the pump

Only in this order the systems stays connected and mechanical equipment belongs to that one system

OMG It should not be that difficult! 

[iainsavage]

---

@anna.dunn282X2 wrote:

OMG It should not be that difficult! 

---

It isn't.

Change the part type in the family to "Breaks Into"

Drop it onto your pipe, it will break in to the pipe and keep the same system on both sides.

Your modelling won't be helped by your pipe routing preferences not including any unions (connectors/couplings) or flanges, so the pipes won't connect to anything unless you manually add fittings to them.

You also have various individual transition families listed but with the size range set to All so Revit will just pick the first item from the list and try to place a 25x20 transition on every pipe where there is a change of size.

If you properly set up the preferences you'll get far better automated results.

[iainsavage]

---

@anna.dunn282X2 wrote:

OMG It should not be that difficult! 

---

It isn't.

Change the part type in the family to "Breaks Into"

Drop it onto your pipe, it will break in to the pipe and keep the same system on both sides.

Your modelling won't be helped by your pipe routing preferences not including any unions (connectors/couplings) or flanges, so the pipes won't connect to anything unless you manually add fittings to them.

You also have various individual transition families listed but with the size range set to All so Revit will just pick the first item from the list and try to place a 25x20 transition on every pipe where there is a change of size.

If you properly set up the preferences you'll get far better automated results.

[anna.dunn282X2]

Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it.

It is a massive learning curve for us. We are still building the library and the protocols in the company I work for. It is really niche sector, so I purged majority of proprietary content from the model I posted (re: route preferences comment).  

But you told us a lot of things we didn't know much about, it must be a good thing.

[anna.dunn282X2]

Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it.

It is a massive learning curve for us. We are still building the library and the protocols in the company I work for. It is really niche sector, so I purged majority of proprietary content from the model I posted (re: route preferences comment).  

But you told us a lot of things we didn't know much about, it must be a good thing.