How to show the structure of the axial fan

[Sæmorr]

I've inserted into a wall this axial fan:

CaptiveAire CEPRSM - Axial Wallmount Standard w/ Shutter

It seems well designed because allows to set the dimensions and fan diameter, however when putting it into a wall it doesn't show the real extents, but the fan diameter only. To view the extents in transparent line, you have to kind of select it. I would like how to correct this annoying behaviour.

This is how it looks like mounted on wall:

And this is with real dimensions:

The outer blueish transparent box is the real size that I want to display as a material, so it looks like the real fan:

[L.Maas]

I opened the family in Revit 2016 and placed it on a wall without problems.

Maybe you can elborate on what you have done or upload your project (wit the relevant data) so that we can have a look

[Sæmorr]

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@EnlInt wrote:

I opened the family in Revit 2016 and placed it on a wall without problems.

Maybe you can elborate on what you have done or upload your project (wit the relevant data) so that we can have a look

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How can I resize the 3 dimensions? That's what I did on "Edit Type -> Construction -> WO -> 1280". The hole in the wall gets bigger however the fan keeps the same size.

[L.Maas]

Ok, I see what you have done. You changed a parameter that resize that box. However that parameter does not influence the size of the fan model

The parameter above determines the model of the fan;

However when you modify that parameter the model will change, but the other relating parmaters does not change automatically (not good).

This family already has some predefined types available. Hereunder I dragged the different models onto a wall. You see that they behave as expected.

[Sæmorr]

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@EnlInt wrote:

Ok, I see what you have done. You changed a parameter that resize that box. However that parameter does not influence the size of the fan model

The parameter above determines the model of the fan;

However when you modify that parameter the model will change, but the other relating parmaters does not change automatically (not good).

This family already has some predefined types available. Hereunder I dragged the different models onto a wall. You see that they behave as expected.

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The issue happened because that models only exist with a predefined set of dimensions, and I was trying to strech the fan to fit a bigger housing. I wonder if could be possible to "scale" the revit model produced by CaptiveAire so can fit any given squared housing.

[L.Maas · Accepted solution]

The (3d) model of the fan in the "Fan-Exhaust-CaptiveAire-Axial_Wall_Mounted_wShutter.rfa" family is actually a nested family from the mechanical equipment category name "PRSM". You could open, analyze and edit that family to your liking.

If you have experience with family creation it will be not that difficult to do. If you are not familiar with family creation I would advise to start learning it.

It will save you so much time in the future to create/modify families to have them behave as you want/need them to.

A good starting point can be found on THIS page of the autodesk website.

[Anonymous]

Equipment families are very difficult to model properly. An architectural
guide to family creation does not address family insertion point issues,
visibility issues of model vs symbols, connectors and testing connectivity
and information flow, parameters for scheduling, types and changing
geometry at different sizes and visibility and functionability across
multiple disciplines. Nor is there discussion in the architectural guide
on how to trouble shoot this minefield when things don't work. Mechanical
families are difficult and expectations are high from management because
Autodesk tells them family creation is easy. My experience tells me Revit
MEP users should learn how to make families first before ever taking the
introduction to revit classes.

Yes, everyone should learn to create families. However, Autodesk continues
to not support the drafters and designers of equipment by not providing
relevent, step by step documentation and murky instruction at best and
continuing to not support the majority of engineering firms, which have
fewer than 30 people in their offices.



--
Sincerely
Scott E Forsberg
C: 651-408-5438
H: 651-405-8720


Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future.
- Niels Bohr

[L.Maas]

Equipment families are definitely not the easiest ones to create. The title of the page, I am referring to, might not complete cover the subject. But if you follow the link you will see that MEP components are part of it

As mentioned it is a starting point. Depending on your preference of training you could try to find everything online, read a book, do video courses or some classical courses or even 'private' tutor. Depending on your preferences there are plenty of sources.

Personally I think you should get familiar with normal Revit projects before starting to create your own families. And as Revit is, for most people, quite different from other CAD software, some course can help to grasp the concepts of the program and do the basics. A course can than be a relative fast way to get to know the software.

The remarks about (documentation) support from Autodesk I can not say much about as I am not an Autodesk employee. However through their resellers I usually got plenty of support (firm with less than 10 people). Always found plenty of sources to answer the question I have.

[Sæmorr]

Finally I managed to solve it visually, editing the PRSM.rfa and using it into Fan-Exhaust-CaptiveAire-Axial_Wall_Mounted_wShutter.rfa on Families -> Mechanical -> PRSM -> right click -> Reload -> choose PRSM-modified.rfa.

What I did was to edit PRSM_HOUSING and PRSM_PROP, and look for the 24 inches model and edit the following values to the new ones (but it will show as 24 model however physical dimensions will be the new). I did this because I don't know how to add new members to the family:

• PRSM_HOUSING
  • PROP_24
  • J_24
  • H_24
  • G_24
  • A_24
• PRSM_PROP
  • PROP_DIA_24

To insert the new dimensions model into a project, choose Systems -> Mechanical Equipment -> Load Family ->  Fan-Exhaust-CaptiveAire-Axial_Wall_Mounted_wShutter-modified.rfa -> choose PRSM_24 -> Edit type -> modify "Prop Radius" and WO -> insert on a wall

The dimensions can be extracted from the DWG model available to download from the official website:

1. https://www.captiveaire.com/CATALOGCONTENT/FANS/EXH_CEPRSM/SUBMITTALDRAWING.ASP?catId=120&Model=CEPR...
2. https://www.captiveaire.com/images/CaptiveAire/FanSubmittals/Exh_CEPRSM/AxialWallMountwithShutter.dw...

Letter J can be used as Propeller radius, and WO is the opening in the wall that will produce the fan insertion. That value can be set freely, but usually it's an inch or two bigger than letter J so doesn't look weird like my pictures of the first post.

If you want to have more than one custom fan, it's highly recommended to create individual RFA for each model, and use the 24 inches as base model to modify, because for some reason modifying more than one type on the same family will cause than only one of them looks properly. I think that's because there are fixed dimensions that are somewhat modified each time you edit a model, and if you modify several times it only adapts to one of them.

[L.Maas]

Good job. Nice to read what you have done to make it work for you. Might help other forum users also.

To make a new type you usually can do that here. You add a new type and then modifiy the values of the parameters where needed

[Sæmorr]

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@EnlInt wrote:

Good job. Nice to read what you have done to make it work for you. Might help other forum users also.

To make a newe type you usually can do that here. You add a new type and then modifiy the vaues of the parameters where needed

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I see, however th UNIT_SIZE can't be edited really, you can only choose from a list. I'll make a different post for that doubt. By the way, here's a picture of the predefined models plus the two new ones at the left.

[Sæmorr]

OK I could find the place to add a new size to the family. Open PRSM.rfa and go to Modify -> Family Types. It should open a dialog box called "Family Types" and clicking on the blank sheet with small star prompts to enter the new name. Notice that it will be a copy of the currently selected item (Type name).