Grille size annotation only goes down to 2" but need smaller sizes, like 1"

Grille size annotation only goes down to 2" but need smaller sizes, like 1"

isosa9APBT
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Message 1 of 20

Grille size annotation only goes down to 2" but need smaller sizes, like 1"

isosa9APBT
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Advocate

I have been working on Revit mechanical for a while and noticed that I will have grilles that are 1" in width but the annotation label only goes down to 2" How can I change the label to be able to display a smaller size? I'm using the size parameter to pull the information from the grille. 

 

isosa9APBT_0-1670514620475.png

 

 

isosa9APBT_1-1670514731515.png

 

 

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Replies (19)
Message 2 of 20

ToanDN
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Consultant

Size parameter is properly driven by a lookup table.

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Message 3 of 20

isosa9APBT
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Advocate

Can this be edited? The only way I found to make it work is by downsizing the grille by 1/2". So to display a 1" grille I have to do a 1/2" grille in the Revit plans. This is not an accurate representation of what I'm specifying and what I show on plans. Normally this wouldn't be an issue, but when architects do their walkthroughs of the Revit model the grilles don't quite show the size accurately. Any insight, recommendations, or advice is highly appreciated. Thanks

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Message 4 of 20

RobDraw
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Are you sure the 2" is driven by the slot size?

 

IME, that is the face size in the tag. At larger than 2" face height, you would have a number of 1" slots.


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
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Message 5 of 20

ToanDN
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Consultant

@isosa9APBT wrote:

Can this be edited? 


You can edit the look up table but it is that way for a reason.  Check with the manufacturer's document because you don't want to spec something that doesn't exist.

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Message 6 of 20

isosa9APBT
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Advocate

From the image below you can see the discrepancies between the actual opening, the slot size in the properties, and the annotation. Looking at the actual slot size and the annotation size is closer than the properties, so this shouldn't be too big of a deal, right?

 

isosa9APBT_0-1670518812473.png

 

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Message 7 of 20

RobDraw
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Mentor

I think you are looking at this all wrong. The 1" is the face size height is a different parameter of the grille than the slot size. You are comparing apples to oranges. If the face size height is 6", you could have a number of 1/2", 1", or 2" slots. At a 1" height, you can only have a single 1/2" slot a 1" slot won't work with a 1" face height. Similar to a ceiling egg crate return grille. You could have a 3/4" or 1" grille on a 6"x6" face but you wouldn't have a 4" grille on a 6"x4" face. Dig into the family and/or manufacturers cut sheet and you should see what I am talking about.


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
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Message 8 of 20

iainsavage
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Mentor

I agree with @RobDraw. You're confusing slot size with grille size.

When you have a 1" slot you get a 2" grille size then you said " The only way I found to make it work is by downsizing the grille by 1/2". So to display a 1" grille I have to do a 1/2" grille in the Revit plans".

That implies to me that the grille has 2 slots?

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Message 9 of 20

isosa9APBT
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Advocate

Typically architects don't care as much for the face size as much as they care about the size of the opening. Mostly because they like to use the frame that conceals the face and only shows the slot opening. I did some research and this is what I found. According to their literature, a 1" slot is supposed to be the W plus 1-1/4" SDS100 which is the 1" slot is 2-1/2" plus 1-1/4" making it 3-3/4" width.  In the example, I did the 1" slot using their SDS100 product. We typically call in our schedules using their description recommendation that goes as follows: Unit length, Outlet type/model, number of slots, border style, and accessories. For example, a 1" ceiling slot will be SD100/1/8/B12. we don't call the unit length as they will vary and change often depending on the application and with all different sizes, we would have to create individual grilles to our schedules making them very massive. I'm not sure if any of this makes sense 

isosa9APBT_0-1670541561121.png

isosa9APBT_1-1670541596540.png

 

 

isosa9APBT_3-1670542114131.png

 

 

 

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Message 10 of 20

iainsavage
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Mentor

I understand slot diffusers.

The point is that the parameter in your label/schedule has to be the correct parameter.

If its the Slot width that you want to see in your label/schedule then that is the parameter that you want to include but you are using the Size parameter which is probably the neck or connecting duct size rather than the slot size?

Also you maybe need to look at the resolution settings for your measurement units to indicate fractions of inches rather than just whole inches.

The best way to get an answer though would be to upload your family.

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Message 11 of 20

RobDraw
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@isosa9APBT wrote:

Typically architects don't care


Have you been understanding that the label in the tag may not be reading the slot size?


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
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Message 12 of 20

isosa9APBT
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Advocate

Yes. I use the size parameter for the grilles size annotation. Normally is not an issue with regular grilles, but on the slots it has. I will definitely try to adjust the measurement units if I can find the right one. I only found the one for duct size. I wonder if that affects the annotation label.

 

isosa9APBT_0-1670598197816.png

 

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Message 13 of 20

isosa9APBT
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Of course. I have been manipulating the label to read it that way since that's the way the architects want us to show it. I was just wondering if there was a better way to do it. Aside from using the size parameter, I don't know of another way to have it read the opening size rather than the grille or face size. I'm not advanced enough to create my own parameter that reads the size opening. I think that's probably the best way to do this for slots.  

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Message 14 of 20

iainsavage
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I strongly suggest that you upload your family (you can attach it below your reply).

Then clarify which part of the grille you want to label in your tag- is it W or S or a different dimension?

iainsavage_0-1670614948301.png

Someone will then help you to figure out which parameter to have in your tag label and if you need a customised parameter then we can lead you through how to do that (going forward in Revit that is a skill you will definitely want to have).

 

Regarding the dimension resolution, in your present case it probably is the Duct Size units that you want to change to show fractional inches,

iainsavage_2-1670616226955.png

 

however once we have sorted out your parameter problem it will probably just be the Length units that you need - depends on the parameter types e.g. from the default Autodesk slot diffuser with plenum family the parameter types are as below:-

iainsavage_3-1670616451460.png

 

Upload your family please.

 

 

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Message 15 of 20

isosa9APBT
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Advocate

Normally we want to show the whole grille size for regular grilles, regular grilles as your typical louvered/fined grille. This is a specific issue with slot returns. We want to show the slot size since the architects want to see how big of an opening is going to be visible. So pretty much they only care about S. Please let me know if you need any additional information. Thanks

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Message 16 of 20

RobDraw
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@isosa9APBT wrote:

This is a specific issue with slot returns. We want to show the slot size since the architects want to see how big of an opening is going to be visible.


Slot size does not necessarily equal the opening. The opening can have a number of slots.


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
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Message 17 of 20

isosa9APBT
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Advocate

Of course. We normally don't use more than one slot.  We specify the number of slots in our equipment schedules if we need more than one slot. I guess it would be nice to have an annotation that has the size of the slot and the number of slots for this specific type of grilles/openings. How do you differentiate or call out a single slot from multiple? 

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Message 18 of 20

RobDraw
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Okay, with this diffuser there is only one slot. The face width changes with the size of the single slot.

 

Your problem is that your tag is reading the duct width which has a minimum 2".

 

Slot Return.png


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
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Message 19 of 20

RobDraw
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@isosa9APBT wrote:

I guess it would be nice to have an annotation that has the size of the slot and the number of slots for this specific type of grilles/openings. 


Why not make it? This is really easy and would be a great opportunity to learn about making tags.


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
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Message 20 of 20

iainsavage
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Mentor

Open the family.

Add a new Shared parameter.

iainsavage_0-1670672987936.png

 

Use a formula to make that parameter's value equal to the existing Slot parameter:

iainsavage_1-1670673051591.png

Save and load the family into your project.

 

Then create or amend an air terminal tag family.

Add the same shared parameter to that family and include it in the label.

iainsavage_2-1670673198503.png

Load the tag family into your project.

 

Result:

iainsavage_3-1670673252386.png

This is just an example, adjust/amend to suit your own needs.

 

PS(1): the slot width is not actually what will be seen on the ceiling - you'll see the face of the diffuser which is 3.25" so I hope the Architect is aware of that.

 

PS(2): I hope your Architect and builder understand that the slot width is NOT the size of the ceiling opening which is required - could be embarrassing when they try to squeeze a 2.5" grille neck into the 1" opening that they've prepared. I wouldn't like to be at that meeting!

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