Central model corruption from multiple people syncing

[LisaDrago]

A team in my office has been experiencing central model corruption when multiple people sync at the same time. Is anyone else experiencing this?

To my knowledge when two people sync - one is paused until the other finishes. This is how it has worked for the last 14 years I have worked on Revit.

I have been working cloud based the last 4 years - so has something changed in those 4 years that server based models no longer capable of syncing correctly?

Has something changed to break this process - to me it is a fundamental functionality of the program. 

Someone did point out to me a help page

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles...

From that - before I sync I have to check the worksharing monitor to make sure no one else is syncing - and then sync... that makes no sense to me.

Anyone have any other thoughts?

Thanks!

LD

[RobDraw]

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@LisaDrago wrote:

From that - before I sync I have to check the worksharing monitor to make sure no one else is syncing - and then sync... that makes no sense to me.

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It's good advice and considered best practice. What about it doesn't make sense?

Revit does not allow two or more people to synch at the same time. When more than one person tries to synch at the same time it makes the process slower for everyone. Why would you not try to avoid this?

[LisaDrago]

hello @RobDraw - In the past - when two people try to sync at the same time - it would pause one and when the other is done then the one paused would sync. You may need to wait a minute or two but it always went thru.

it is not that checking the worksharing is bad - I just never had to do it in the past... it is more clicks - and no one wants more clicks...

Your comment does not address the actual problem of why multiple syncs corrupts the central model.

LD

[RobDraw]

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@LisaDrago wrote:

Your comment does not address the actual problem of why multiple syncs corrupts the central model.

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Because I feel it is irrelevant. Multiple users cannot SWC at the same time. There is a reason for that and it's probably because it corrupts the central model. A tool was created to prevent more than one person from trying to synch at the same time for a number of reasons, one of them might have been to prevent file corruption. I don't care about the why's. I do care about preventing file corruption. When that happens, it falls on my shoulders to fix it. When a few extra clicks by me and my users keeps everyone up and running, everyone should be on board.

I honestly don't understand what the issue is. More than one person synching at the same time cannot happen. Sure, Revit has a built in procedure for doing it but it is well documented that it should be avoided and Autodesk has provided an easy way to check. Is it 100% fool proof? No, but if all it takes is a click to make sure no one else is synching when I hit that button, I'm more than willing to do it because I've got a much better chance of avoiding a situation that could corrupt my model. 

Best practices are not arbitrary. They are in workflows for reasons. Some are more apparent than others. By following these suggested workflows, whether I understand them or not, and seeing what happens when others don't has allowed me to figure out some of the reasons. If you want to ignore these suggestions in the name of a few clicks, go ahead. Just beware that you have to deal with the consequences which may have been avoided with a few extra clicks. That's your choice.

Good luck! 

[LisaDrago]

@RobDraw  - Excuse me if the information of what I am looking for is below you.

Maybe you should not respond to a posting if you do not know the actual answer.

Ultimately what it comes down to for me... In the past the process did not corrupt the model - why is it now corrupting the model.

Users have never been able to sync at the same time. That has not changed.

Revit prevented that from happening WITHOUT corrupting the model.

If you do not understand the 'why' behind the problem then do you truly know how to fix it when it happens?

Yes there are best practices to follow I AM NOT AGAINST them as you are implying. 

I just want to know why the model is being corrupted when in the past it did not happen.

Either something has changed in the program or there is something wrong with our model.

I am trying to find an answer to an issue so to prevent it in the future.

That should not be that hard to understand.

[RobDraw]

What's with the 'tude, dude?!!!

Why don't you realize that this is not a new thing? The fact that you didn't have issues before doesn't mean that it wasn't a thing. It just means that you did not experience it. You posted a link to Autodesk's AKN and it does not mention that it is new behavior that started with a version or update. It does tell you how to prevent it form happening. I thought that was the answer to your question. I'm confused.

You only now mentioned that it is only happening in one model. How did you determine that the corruption was due to simultaneous synching?

[LisaDrago]

@RobDraw  - I can certainly throw that 'tude question back at ya.

This has certainly been blown up into something that it should not have.

Someone else in my office came to this conclusion and I am trying to figure out if others are experiencing this or if it is just us. If it is not happening with others then it may be an issue with our model. 

A process of elimination - if more people are having this issue then it is not an issue with our model. 

I am just reaching out for information. That is what these boards are about.

I have been working with Revit for 14 years. I am not new to this process.

More times then I can count - more then one person has initiated a sync at the same time.  

That process has never corrupted a model before, that I know of.

SO I am just trying to see if this is an actual issue or not... 

It is not about best practices or any of that - I just want to know if others are actually experiencing this issue or not.

If they are - is it because of the multiple sync or is it is a model issue.

That is all I am looking for.

[RobDraw]

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@LisaDrago wrote:

SO I am just trying to see if this is an actual issue or not... 

It is not about best practices or any of that - I just want to know if others are actually experiencing this issue or not.

If they are - is it because of the multiple sync or is it is a model issue.

That is all I am looking for.

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I'm already regretting typing this response.

It sounds like you are questioning the validity of the link that you posted. I can verify that the worksharing monitor is a tool designed to help prevent simultaneous synching. Autodesk has included this add-on in the default installation download. I started using this essential tool during my initial training. It works.

[LisaDrago]

It all comes back to the original question....

Is ANYONE in the world experiencing central model corruption when multiple people sync at the same time.

Can we just start with that one question.

[RobDraw]

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@LisaDrago wrote:

It all comes back to the original question....

Is ANYONE in the world experiencing central model corruption when multiple people sync at the same time.

Can we just start with that one question.

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The link that you provided proves that. Autodesk provides tools to help prevent the corruption from happening. 

[RobDraw]

There are a number of ways that a model can get corrupted. Why are you focusing on simultaneous synching if it is only happening in one model?

[RobDraw]

Do you understand what I am asking?

You think that your file got corrupted from simultaneous synching.

How did you come to that conclusion?

How did you rule out the other possibilities?

Were you able to fix the corruption?

What is your real problem?

[Anonymous]

Considering Revit has removed the worksharing monitor tool in BIM 360 Design for Revit 2019, this is an extremely relevant question.

The worksharing tool should be used to make sure there are no concurrent synchs, mostly as a question of saving time, not because it corrupts the model to do so and there are no safeguards to this issue.

While I understand that this is the current answer from Autodesk it is highly problematic and concerning. They should really find a way to avoid this corruption at all cost to make their tools 'idiot proof'. If the mere act of a user synching while others are synching corrupts your entire model, it`s a HUGE issue.

[RobDraw]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Considering Revit has removed the worksharing monitor tool in BIM 360 Design for Revit 2019, this is an extremely relevant question.

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Worksharing monitor never worked in cloud projects. We used to have the communicator for doing the same thing. That has been discontinued with nothing to replace it. Birdtools has something that does the same thing.

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@Anonymous wrote:

They should really find a way to avoid this corruption at all cost to make their tools 'idiot proof'. If the mere act of a user synching while others are synching corrupts your entire model, it`s a HUGE issue.

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Revit does not allow simultaneous synching. How can it cause corruption? I think the problems caused by people attempting to synch at the same time is due more to the data stream bottle neck that happens. I think in this case there is something else causing the corruption.

Also, idiots shouldn't be allowed to work in a collaborative environment. I've seen people pulled from projects for not following proper procedures. If Revit were made idiot proof, the demolition tool would look like this.

[Anonymous]

I wish all our employees were geniuses, but until the start training all architects on Revit in schools, it won`t happen.

Also, something as mundane as synching should not send the whole office in a panic.

If a fool demolishes everything using the demo tool, there is reason to be mad at the user. If someone ruins a project by synching it, there is reason to be mad at Autodesk.

[RobDraw]

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@Anonymous wrote:

If someone ruins a project by synching it, there is reason to be mad at Autodesk.

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As far as I know, no one has proved that synching with central in itself causes corruption. That's why I'm asking the OP how they came to that conclusion.

[Anonymous]

Lisa has experienced it. I've experience corruption, but can never find a clear reason for it. Most importantly, Autodesk is telling us this:

'Revit model gets sometimes corrupted when multiple users sync at the same time.'

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles...

[RobDraw]

This thread is going nowhere, fast.

We've got one person that says they've experienced corruption because of simultaneous synching (which cannot happen, BTW), references a link from Autodesk, and asks if anyone has experienced this which is self contradicting. Now we've got a person that has never experienced this kind of corruption but says it's a thing and references the same link.

Does corruption happen when multiple people synch at the same time? No, only one person can synch at a time.

Can corruption happen when multiple people are trying to synch at the same time? Yes, it is probably due to a data bottle neck and the way that the network handles it. Autodesk says to avoid trying to synch at the same time as other people and provides a tool to help with that. If you are consistently getting corruptions because of people synching at the same time, the simple solution is to schedule synch times. There is only so much automation can do for this when you've got multiple people working in the same model. There has to be a point when people need to coordinate with each other. Blaming Autodesk for untrained personnel is inane.

[Anonymous]

I think you've just ignored or distorted most of the points that we've made so far on top of calling me stupid (inane). There's no point going over these points again with you.

[RobDraw]

I didn't call you anything. I said that what you are doing is inane and I'll stand by it all day long. Smarter people have done stupider things.

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@Anonymous wrote:

I think you've just ignored or distorted most of the points that we've made so far.

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Nope, not ignored, the points just don't make sense and I'm looking for clarity hoping that something of real value will come around.