Can't associate a shared parameter to a model-in-place lighting family

[JustinBrown8567]

Hello!

I am discovering that I can't associate our wattage shared parameter to the electrical connector of a model-in-place lighting family.

When I try, I get this:

I have a new family template file with that same parameter already loaded so there's no issue when making new families, just MIPs.

We do try to limit using MIPs in general but they can be quite handy sometimes!

Any ideas?

Thank you

[JustinBrown8567]

Hello!

I am discovering that I can't associate our wattage shared parameter to the electrical connector of a model-in-place lighting family.

When I try, I get this:

I have a new family template file with that same parameter already loaded so there's no issue when making new families, just MIPs.

We do try to limit using MIPs in general but they can be quite handy sometimes!

Any ideas?

Thank you

[ToanDN]

No issues here.  

[ToanDN]

No issues here.  

[JustinBrown8567]

something is different but I haven't figured it out yet, I attached a quick video to show my workflow.

What am I missing?

[JustinBrown8567]

something is different but I haven't figured it out yet, I attached a quick video to show my workflow.

What am I missing?

[JustinBrown8567]

any other thoughts?

[JustinBrown8567]

any other thoughts?

[ToanDN]

You cannot associate a Wattage shared parameter to a Apparent Power parameter.

[ToanDN]

You cannot associate a Wattage shared parameter to a Apparent Power parameter.

[JustinBrown8567]

does that mean the Electrical Connector is by default Apparent Power and only Apparent Power?
I guess what I don't understand is if I make a new family from my family template file (where my wattage shared parameter is already loaded), I can easily associate it; it just doesn't work when making a MIP family

[JustinBrown8567]

does that mean the Electrical Connector is by default Apparent Power and only Apparent Power?
I guess what I don't understand is if I make a new family from my family template file (where my wattage shared parameter is already loaded), I can easily associate it; it just doesn't work when making a MIP family

[ToanDN]

---

@JustinBrown8567 wrote:
does that mean the Electrical Connector is by default Apparent Power and only Apparent Power?
I guess what I don't understand is if I make a new family from my family template file (where my wattage shared parameter is already loaded), I can easily associate it; it just doesn't work when making a MIP family

---

I tested a lighting fixture family and it behaves exactly the same as the in-place model lighting fixture family.  Can you share the family that you can assign a Wattage shared parameter to Apparent Load of a connector?

[ToanDN]

---

@JustinBrown8567 wrote:
does that mean the Electrical Connector is by default Apparent Power and only Apparent Power?
I guess what I don't understand is if I make a new family from my family template file (where my wattage shared parameter is already loaded), I can easily associate it; it just doesn't work when making a MIP family

---

I tested a lighting fixture family and it behaves exactly the same as the in-place model lighting fixture family.  Can you share the family that you can assign a Wattage shared parameter to Apparent Load of a connector?

[JustinBrown8567]

here's a family I just made with my template file (also attached)

[JustinBrown8567]

here's a family I just made with my template file (also attached)

[HVAC-Novice]

the type of parameter (and associated units) need to be the same. Apparent Power is used for panel sizing etc. So your family needs to provide that (manually entered, or calculated)

I'm no electrical engineer, but this may explain the differences. Yes, all technically are power, and you could convert them, but for electrical design a 1 VA is not necessarily 1W (it can, though). So that is why Revit is picky about the correct type of power.  You just have to use the same type of parameter in the nested family. 

[HVAC-Novice]

the type of parameter (and associated units) need to be the same. Apparent Power is used for panel sizing etc. So your family needs to provide that (manually entered, or calculated)

I'm no electrical engineer, but this may explain the differences. Yes, all technically are power, and you could convert them, but for electrical design a 1 VA is not necessarily 1W (it can, though). So that is why Revit is picky about the correct type of power.  You just have to use the same type of parameter in the nested family. 

[JustinBrown8567]

Thanks for your reply but I think I'm still missing something.
We are a lighting design firm that builds all our own families and includes an electrical connector so that we can parametrically calculate the total wattage of some of our fixtures. Our shared parameter type for total fixture wattage is "wattage" and not "apparent power". Should it be and if it was, could we still calculate total fixture wattages? Is our shared parameter useless to the electrical engineer when our model is linked into theirs? We thought we were being helpful!

[JustinBrown8567]

Thanks for your reply but I think I'm still missing something.
We are a lighting design firm that builds all our own families and includes an electrical connector so that we can parametrically calculate the total wattage of some of our fixtures. Our shared parameter type for total fixture wattage is "wattage" and not "apparent power". Should it be and if it was, could we still calculate total fixture wattages? Is our shared parameter useless to the electrical engineer when our model is linked into theirs? We thought we were being helpful!

[ToanDN]

Yes the family has Apparent Load as a Wattage parameter.  Where did you get this family from?  If I create a new family from any Lighting Fixture family template, Apparent Load is Apparent Power, not Wattage parameter.

[ToanDN]

Yes the family has Apparent Load as a Wattage parameter.  Where did you get this family from?  If I create a new family from any Lighting Fixture family template, Apparent Load is Apparent Power, not Wattage parameter.

[HVAC-Novice]

Spaces read the lighting power from the room calculation point and electrical connector apparent power. That way the lighting level schedule also shows total power of the space, and W/ft²

I just do it the sloppy way and enter the fixture wattage as Apparent Power (don't care about power factor and I'm not sure if what the manufacturer say is W or VA). Ultimately I still enter the manufacturer W, and get W/ft² . 

[HVAC-Novice]

Spaces read the lighting power from the room calculation point and electrical connector apparent power. That way the lighting level schedule also shows total power of the space, and W/ft²

I just do it the sloppy way and enter the fixture wattage as Apparent Power (don't care about power factor and I'm not sure if what the manufacturer say is W or VA). Ultimately I still enter the manufacturer W, and get W/ft² . 

[JustinBrown8567]

I created the template by starting with the generic face-based family, loading in all of our relevant shared parameters, including our wattage shared parameter, and changing the file extension. When we use this template to build families, I can associate our wattage shared parameter to the connector, essentially bypassing the built-in apparent load parameter so that we can use our formulas.

[JustinBrown8567]

I created the template by starting with the generic face-based family, loading in all of our relevant shared parameters, including our wattage shared parameter, and changing the file extension. When we use this template to build families, I can associate our wattage shared parameter to the connector, essentially bypassing the built-in apparent load parameter so that we can use our formulas.

[ToanDN]

---

@JustinBrown8567 wrote:
I created the template by starting with the generic face-based family, loading in all of our relevant shared parameters, including our wattage shared parameter, and changing the file extension. When we use this template to build families, I can associate our wattage shared parameter to the connector, essentially bypassing the built-in apparent load parameter so that we can use our formulas.

---

I did the same thing and here is what I have.

[ToanDN]

---

@JustinBrown8567 wrote:
I created the template by starting with the generic face-based family, loading in all of our relevant shared parameters, including our wattage shared parameter, and changing the file extension. When we use this template to build families, I can associate our wattage shared parameter to the connector, essentially bypassing the built-in apparent load parameter so that we can use our formulas.

---

I did the same thing and here is what I have.

[JustinBrown8567]

cool, and were you able to associate your wattage shared parameter to the connector?

[JustinBrown8567]

cool, and were you able to associate your wattage shared parameter to the connector?

[JustinBrown8567]

I wonder if I am overthinking this; what if I just use our wattage shared parameter to automatically populate the default Apparent Load parameter for all of my fixtures?

I don't think it will affect the built-in LPD calculations and that way I can just use Apparent Load on all our MIPS but more importantly, my users don't have to learn a new workflow

[JustinBrown8567]

I wonder if I am overthinking this; what if I just use our wattage shared parameter to automatically populate the default Apparent Load parameter for all of my fixtures?

I don't think it will affect the built-in LPD calculations and that way I can just use Apparent Load on all our MIPS but more importantly, my users don't have to learn a new workflow

[ToanDN]

---

@JustinBrown8567 wrote:

I wonder if I am overthinking this; what if I just use our wattage shared parameter to automatically populate the default Apparent Load parameter for all of my fixtures?

I don't think it will affect the built-in LPD calculations and that way I can just use Apparent Load on all our MIPS but more importantly, my users don't have to learn a new workflow

---

Sounds like it will work.

[ToanDN]

---

@JustinBrown8567 wrote:

I wonder if I am overthinking this; what if I just use our wattage shared parameter to automatically populate the default Apparent Load parameter for all of my fixtures?

I don't think it will affect the built-in LPD calculations and that way I can just use Apparent Load on all our MIPS but more importantly, my users don't have to learn a new workflow

---

Sounds like it will work.