All spaces are automatically given a zone

[zach2VB8K]

Revit 2023.1 through Construction Cloud

Here is a breakdown of the process for the issue. 

1. The architectural model had rooms placed throughout each space in the building.
2. The architectural model was linked into the MEP model through Construction Cloud. 
3. Each room in the MEP model was given a space (no rooms).
4. The spaces were then grouped into appropriate zones.
5. Without any known action all the zones were deleted (not moved) and a new zone was placed in every room. The name of the zone is pulled from the room name in the architectural model. 
6. The new unwanted zones were manually deleted and the work was done a second time to define the zones correctly. Luckily the spaces were unmodified. 
7. Through a second unknown action the same thing happened a second time. 

Does anyone have any idea why this weird glitch is happening. I'm hesitant to do the work for a third time because I'm not confident it will last. 

[HVAC-Novice]

The part I don't understand is how the zone name "was pulled from the room name"?.

The space names can match the room names (space naming utility). but the Zone name is a manual entry (since some zones consist of multiple spaces). I usually name the Zones by the device served (e.g. VAV-07), so there isn't an automatic way or a relation to the room name. 

[zach2VB8K]

This is confusing me as well! It doesn't make any sense. 

[mbaronW7ELN]

I am having the same issue, opened a project that has been worked on previous to the new release and had all new zones added to all spaces. Went and selected all zones and deleted them then a warning message popped up that all zones have the same name as spaces. clicking ok placed all the deleted zones back into the model, reselecting and deleting then clicking cancel got rid of the zones. Synchronized, closed, and reopened from construction cloud and the zones are back in the model. This needs to be hotfixed asap

[Anonymous]

I'm so glad I'm not just going crazy. I mean it sucks that other people are also experiencing it but I was starting to think it was something I was doing wrong. 

[mbaronW7ELN · Accepted solution]

do you happen to have RippleHVAC addin installed? Just found that has an automatic space to zone function that appears to be my issue. I was able to turn it off by going to the addin and clicking the help drop down and clicking "disable space to zone link". removed zones sync'd reopened no issue.

[Anonymous]

We don't use RippleHVAC. Bummer

[zach2VB8K]

Guess what!!! One of my employees had RippleHVAC installed but wasn't using it. Thank you soooooo much for responding here to let me know what you found. I would have never in a million years been able to figure out what was going on without your help. I really appreciated it. 

[mbaronW7ELN]

Just as an FYI when you disable the function in Ripple when you restart REVIT it will be enabled again. Make sure that individual is clicking cancel when they get the warning that the spaces have duplicate names as zones. and then disable it again.

[robert2JCCH]

@Kevin.Lawson.PE is this a quick patch?

[kevin.lawsonADSKUSERNAME]

Yes, I'll submit an update to Autodesk that makes disabling the link permanent this week. It typically takes them a few days to review and approve. 

Some background:

Yes, Ripple keeps 1 space linked to 1 zone. I wrote a little about HVAC Zones here: https://rippleengineeringsoftware.com/running-hvac-heating-and-cooling-loads-in-revit/.  The pertinent part is copied below.  Essentially, my suggestion is to not use the Revit “HVAC Zones”.  Instead, you can use the “Ripple-AHU Zone” and the “Ripple-VAV Zone” to indicate zoning.  This has the added benefit of being automatically assigned using the AutoZoning tool. Here’s a demonstration of how the VAV Zoning works.  https://youtu.be/_t2e-gC8-Po?t=890

You can disable the Zones to Spaces Link under the help menu (see image below).  But I recommend not using HVAC Zones and instead use the “Ripple-AHU Zone” and “Ripple-VAV Zone” Parameters for the following reasons:

                1) They can be automatically assigned using the “Auto Zoning” Tool

                2) This way you can feed data from your zones to automatic equipment selections (VAV AutoSelect and a soon to be released AHU AutoSelect).

                3) You can still make color-coded zoning charts like below with color schemes.

                4) HVAC Zones only allow one zone type, when you will need at least 2. (AHU/ventilation and Terminal Unit/Thermal).  

Revit HVAC Zones: The HVAC Zones category in Revit has some issues. There’s no clear direction on what the HVAC Zone is supposed to be. Is it a terminal unit zone? An AHU zone? A ventilation zone? The HVAC Zones contain data behavior that would apply to all of these zone types. For instance, when calculating loads, any space on that zone that is marked plenum (yes/no “Plenum” Parameter is checked) will not have a load calculated and reported. Instead, it will attempt to apply that load to the return air of the AHU (or whatever system type you have selected). This sounds okay in theory, but the HVAC Zone also contains the temperature setpoints, so unless your whole AHU zone is going have the same temperature setpoint, you can’t use it as an AHU zone. For this reason, we need to totally disregard zones, when you see zones in the loads report, disregard them and look at spaces only. The Ripple HVAC Loads Toolkit will automatically keep 1 zone synced with 1 space and keep the space temperature setpoints synced, because the internal loads engine uses the zone temperature. This will happen in the background, so disregard zones. If you have been using HVAC Zones with Color Fill Legends for visualization, we suggest creating a different Space text parameter such as “AHU Zone” or “Terminal Unit Zone” which can accomplish the same task and be more descriptive of what you are trying to visualize.

[kevin.lawsonADSKUSERNAME]

Okay,  version 4.2.0 was just approved by Autodesk.  This version will save your Spaces to Zone link preference.   Available here: https://apps.autodesk.com/RVT/en/Detail/Index?id=5974196855268133162&appLang=en&os=Win64

I still recommend you abandon HVAC zones and use “Ripple-AHU Zone” and the “Ripple-VAV Zone” to indicate zoning because it can be automatically assigned and you can use that zoning to automatically select equipment from the manufacturer's selection software. 

There is also a new "Easy Button" feature which I'm hoping you'll enjoy. Link in an architectural model, hit the easy button and you'll get loads, ventilation calculations, zoning, diffuser placement and VAV selection.