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Please make it possible to add Yes/No parameters to MEP connectors.
Take a radiator as an example, normally this has 6 connections, but we only use the tow of them.
But as it is now, we need to have a family for each connection type but this its still the same radiator, witch is confusing fore the contractor and the quantities.
ark.elec-- can you elaborate more on the specifics? What do you mean by a 'way'? Is the problem one of having power connections showing up in System Browser, with no intent to circuit to it, or is it something different?
martin.schmid, the "way" refers to the quantity of connection points so the example above is a 4-way module. The options start at 2 ways & go up to 8 ways.
The family I have created lists 7 options which can be selected by the user. Every option (when mounted vertically & viewed in plan), all 8 connectors are available - onto which a conduit can be connected. The attached image illustrates a 4-way module on either side of an electrical panel with a 5-way module on the top. A panel with horizontal orientation doesn't return that same issue.
I would also be very interested in this feature for creating MEP content libraries. As the original question asked, the ability to add visibility to connectors (as there is for geometry) so that one family can be built to accommodate many different pieces of equipment and not need to be maintained in multiple family files.
Ex 1: A water heater, it has very much the same geometry from version to version but would have different connections depending on whether it was gas or electric.
Ex 2: Roof top mechanical equipment has connections on various sides of the equipment and would be customized per job. If I could just have one unit that I could turn the connections on or off depending on which side they were located, my library could be much smaller.
Ex 3: Pump pits usually have many different amounts of connectors on them for inlet and outlets, it would be easier to build a family that could turn the connectors on or off and locate them than creating a new family for each condition.
There is a lot of equipment out there with very similar conditions, and this feature would help a lot with content creation as well as end user efficiency.
thanks for the examples, it is always helpful to have such examples to help identify more about what the request really entails, so I appreciate you taking the time to articulate some of the use cases.
Ex 1: A water heater, it has very much the same geometry from version to version but would have different connections depending on whether it was gas or electric.
If the WH was electric, you'd also have family parameters associated with the electrical connector that wouldn't be necessary if it was gas, correct? SImilarly, you'd have some potential gas input MBH params and exhaust and/or fresh air airflow rate requirements /params for a gas WH that you'd not need with the elec case. This sounds less about toggling connectors, and more like making it easier to re-use geometry in >1 family?
Ex 2: Roof top mechanical equipment has connections on various sides of the equipment and would be customized per job. If I could just have one unit that I could turn the connections on or off depending on which side they were located, my library could be much smaller.
in this specific case, it is more a matter of having a single definition for each connector (e.g., supply and return to keep it simple), and have multiple locations where each connector could potentially be located? E.g, instead of having to toggle one connector on, and the rest off.. is it a matter of identifying which location i want to use for a particular type or instance?
Ex 3: Pump pits usually have many different amounts of connectors on them for inlet and outlets, it would be easier to build a family that could turn the connectors on or off and locate them than creating a new family for each condition.
With a variable number of inlets, similar to Ex 1, what does one make of the potentially redundant parameters associated with connectors that aren't used in the case where there is only one connector? E.g., would you expect there to be a 'Inlet Flow 1', 'Inlet Flow 2', 'Inlet Flow 3' if you had 3 connectors, but only 'Inlet Flow 1' if you only had one connector?
In the UK we design drainage systems using collar bosses and bends with multiple inlets as well as radiator/emitter systems as shown above.
When modelling this arrangement of pipes it either leaves multiple connectors open which doesn't work or it adds several caps per boss which screws up the quantities.
To clarify the above post regarding "Ways", in the UK a Panel Schedule 'circuit' is a Distribution Board 'Way'. This may be a single phase way or a three phase way. These are arranged as 1L1, 1L2, 1L3 or 1L123 rather than the backwards way Revit describes them (L1-1).
The IET publishes BS7671, the rules for electrical work in the UK, the link below is from their forum. Ignore the thread content, only the circuit nomenclature is important. The book is about £45, do Autodesk not own a copy?
Ex1: I would use multiple families for this.
Ex2: Having multiple connectors which will sum onto the same system would certainly help. Having multiple connectors of the same type on an air handling unit would create multiple systems whereas if it was fitted with a pre-heat coil and a heater battery they could be on the same system, not on two different systems.
Ex3: A heat recovery ventilation unit could have three inlets and three outlets arranged as a pair and single connector of each type on opposite sides. The connectors would need to sum together to give the correct upstream and downstream air flow value.
If there was only 1 connector selected to be active it should just say "inlet flow 1" or display whatever the connectors name is.
FYI you need to implement split-load panels, the vast majority of commercial branch panels fitted in the UK are now split-load type due to the requirement in Approved Document L to separately meter lighting and power (receptacle) electrical loads in Clause 2.47 (a).
This split-load arrangement is shown in the Schneider Electric catalogue page 1/8. "Acti 9 Isobar Split metered* distribution boards busbar rating 125 amp switch disconnector fitted" The upper pan assembly (top circuits) are usually used for lighting circuits and the lower pan assembly (bottom circuits) are normally used for small power circuits (receptacles).
If Autodesk have already talked to UK electrical engineers and electrical contractors they should already know all this. The Nottingham head office Design department of Imtech UK would be more than happy to help answer any questions you have over UK standards (3rd biggest UK electrical contracting business).
I build a lot of parametric families for the company I work for, quite literally 1,000's per year. I take it as a personal challenge to make a part with the least number of user inputs and the greatest amount of accuracy I can. The screenshot below is an example of a Medical Gas alarm panel, 3 of them actually. Of course it's a parametric model, based on the number of nozzles it has, they change dimension in the X and Y axis, and number of ports available.
It would make families much cleaner in these situations if a connector can be turned off or disabled from use, driven by check mark, or any other method of formula to automate this! This would also reduce confusion to our detailers having random floating connectors they aren't supposed to use anyway.
I realize I could save copies of each version with the connectors deleted and additional nozzles deleted, but come on, we could also just stay detailing with AutoCAD and inserting dumb (stupid) blocks, because that's essentially the same thing.
Ex 2: Roof top mechanical equipment has connections on various sides of the equipment and would be customized per job. If I could just have one unit that I could turn the connections on or off depending on which side they were located, my library could be much smaller.
in this specific case, it is more a matter of having a single definition for each connector (e.g., supply and return to keep it simple), and have multiple locations where each connector could potentially be located? E.g, instead of having to toggle one connector on, and the rest off.. is it a matter of identifying which location i want to use for a particular type or instance?
If we could define a connector and then dynamically "identify" the location per type/instance, that would be exquisite!
As I see it if we could have the option just to turn the connectors off that would be a good start. On an extract fan with 3 inlet spigots we would have spigots 1,2 and 3. If we only connect to spigot 1 Revit complains about open connectors. I want to turn off 2 and 3 without using a blanking plate. The same method would be handy for multi-way bosses on pipe systems, if I only want to use 3 of the 8 available connections points it doesn't work properly.
@scott_dakin, I concede your point. I would also agree with your post above that Ex 1 would make sense as separate families.
I am starting to think that Ex 2 and Ex 3 are very distinct use cases. I see this idea, as stated, directly addressing Ex 3. However, it seems that Ex 2 would be more holistically addressed by martin's suggestion of connectors that can be dynamically located, which may warrant a completely separate Idea post.
@Martin__Schmid, would you advise creating a separate Idea for the "dynamically located connectors"?
- Paramètre de visibilité sur les connecteurs MEP - Gérer les paramètres par des paramètres (Type/Occurence) : - Configuration du débit - Direction du débit - Classification du system
EN
Visibility parameter on MEP connectors
- Visibility parameter on MEP connectors - Manage the parameters by parameters (Type/Instance): - Flow configuration - Flow direction - Classification of the system
we solved it with nested families that are driving the visibility of the lowest familie with formulas and ...tada...it worked. problem is, that you can't generate the connectors within the family. as i wrote years ago, a clumsy workflow... but it works!
@Anonymous
"we solved it with nested families that are driving the visibility of the lowest familie with formulas and ...tada...it worked. problem is, that you can't generate the connectors within the family. as i wrote years ago, a clumsy workflow... but it works!"
What do you mean by can't generate the connectors within the family?
Also, @Anonymous
"So how is it coming with visibility settlings for connectors?"
WELL???
There are some MEP Families with many connectors where, not always, all of them will be used (although they are connection possibilities, it does not mean that they will all be used).
Examples include some components such as mechanical air conditioning equipment (VRF distibution type), hydraulic water tanks, or electric junction hex/octogonal boxes (the one above the lighting fixture).
All of them could have an instance parameter Visibility (On/Off), so that they could, together with the surface contact, also be turned On or Off.
Also the Visibility Parameter would also make it possible, in some way, to assign it between MEP Connectors in Nested Families.
Since this is not possible yet, we still need to create several independent families, which turns out to be not so good for end-user project designers and content creators.
I have a duct manifold (1 duct inlet and multiple duct outlets) that I would like to be able to toggle the number of outlet connectors. Can't figure out a way to do this without making a completely different family for each configuration.
The same way modeled elements are able to have a visibility parameter assigned to them, the element connector should have the same ability. Control it if you want or leave it be and always visible if you don't, pretty simple setup.
