Work planes for sweep objects in families

[nathaniel.mcmahon]

I'm creating a windows family with architectural details but I'm finding it difficult to get the details to locate on the exterior wall plane correctly. 

With extrusions I can simply edit work plane and assign to the exterior wall but there are no such options I can find for some of my sweeps (some have edit work plane button some don't) Merely aligning to the face does not work.  Appreciate any input, thanks.

[Ilic.Andrej]

I recommend you nest generic models to create those ornaments. It will be so much easier to control it in the window family.

[nathaniel.mcmahon]

RIght I've taken your advice and created a parametric column to add to an existing Window family. I'm having the same issues locating it correctly. I'm Fairly new to families so probably something I'm overlooking. The column adjusts for height and scales nicely. I've tried to align those ref.planes to reference planes in the parent family but this isn't working out nicely. Can't seem to do the most basic align of getting the column to align to the window edge. Been trying all day and exhausted from it. I've attached where I'm at with the family. I'd  really appreciate a clever eye to point out my problem.

[barthbradley]

I wouldn't nest a Column -- or even use a column like this.  But besides that, I thought the issue was with Architectural Details in a Model Family.  Normally, we do those in Detail Families and nest them into the Model Families.  That's probably what @Ilic.Andrej was talking about.  Still, I not really clear about all of what you are saying, especially regarding sweeps.  Could you elaborate?   

[nathaniel.mcmahon]

Maybe my terminology is confusing. By architectural details I mean decorative elements around a window. Which in this case are columns (flat pilaster type to be precise) and a frieze. My issue is having these elements locked on wall face and window edge. I can't seem to edit the work plane they are in. 

[barthbradley]

I think you may have better luck hosting sweep paths to a Model Lines which are, in turn, aligned and locked to Ref. Planes.  Move the Ref. Plane and the Sweep Path will move with it.  

[ToanDN · Accepted solution]

The reference planes in you columns are all wrong.  They should align with the geometry if you want to use them to align the column in the host window family.  See attached file.  By the way, if you want to match the height of the column with the opening, it will break for shorter window.

[nathaniel.mcmahon]

That's what I initially tried but again I can't change the work plane on a model line/sweep so can't get good alignments.

[barthbradley]

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@nathaniel.mcmahon wrote:

That's what I initially tried but again I can't change the work plane on a model line/sweep so can't get good alignments.

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That's not right.  Something else is going on here.  What do you mean by "can't change the work plane on a model line/sweep"?  

[nathaniel.mcmahon]

Thanks, I get my mistake re: column ref lines not aligning to the geometry. 

So I can't have the column stretch to the window size?

In that case I've opened the column family (double click on the column when in the window family and have adjusted the nominal height to suit my smaller window size) then load it back into the window family but it still has the old size. It has the correct size in the column family but remains the older large one still in the window family? Am I missing something still?

Thanks again for help

[nathaniel.mcmahon]

When a sweep is selected there is no edit workplane button in the ribbon, unlike with extrusions for example. I can't align model lines to anything as aligning isn't possible in sketch mode. 

When I try and align the sweep geometry it's not staying put in the real model. I try to align the exterior wall face to the geometry. I think I must be missing something fundamental. I've attached the file I'm talking about if anyone has the time to look. Thanks.

[nathaniel.mcmahon]

I've a hunch it's because the sweep model line isn't in the plane as the face of the resulting geometry is in. And it will always align with the position of the model line and not the geometry?

[barthbradley]

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@nathaniel.mcmahon wrote:

Thanks, I get my mistake re: column ref lines not aligning to the geometry. 

So I can't have the column stretch to the window size?

In that case I've opened the column family (double click on the column when in the window family and have adjusted the nominal height to suit my smaller window size) then load it back into the window family but it still has the old size. It has the correct size in the column family but remains the older large one still in the window family? Am I missing something still?

Thanks again for help

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You are pointing out why I said I wouldn't nest and use a column the way you are.   

Whatever.  Live and learn. 

[ToanDN]

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@nathaniel.mcmahon wrote:

Thanks, I get my mistake re: column ref lines not aligning to the geometry. 

So I can't have the column stretch to the window size?

In that case I've opened the column family (double click on the column when in the window family and have adjusted the nominal height to suit my smaller window size) then load it back into the window family but it still has the old size. It has the correct size in the column family but remains the older large one still in the window family? Am I missing something still?

Thanks again for help

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You could have the column match the window height but you need to edit the family and parameterize all the little pieces so that they work with different heights.  To text it, just change the height between the top and bottom levels in the column family.

[nathaniel.mcmahon]

I've actually parameterized all the little pieces already so it's ready to
go just needs to be constrained by top and bottom and middle of the window.
Changing the height between the top and bottom levels in the column family
does change the column height but this new height for some reason effect
the model in the window family even though I have loaded it back into it.
Nothing changes?

[barthbradley]

I'm confused. You gave a solution credit to a non-working solution?  

BTW: April Fools was yesterday. 

[nathaniel.mcmahon]

ToanDN Rightly pointed out the most obvious problem was with the column geometry ref lines not locked to it's geometry. Which gave me a way of accomplishing what I wanted in a different way. But still the underlying questions regarding aligning sweeps and changing workplanes for sweeps remain.

More than one answer credit can be given per post though. ToanDN as provided me with something that works though as the question evolved. 

[ToanDN]

Here is how to associate the heights.

[nathaniel.mcmahon]

Beautiful Thanks!

[ToanDN]

You should set the work plane for the sweep prior to sketch the path.  The example below show picking the face of the wall as the work plane. 

In you case, it is better using pick path and pick the edge of the opening.  The benefit of using pick path is that the path follows any changes you made to the picked edge, e.g. when your opening changes dimension, the column will move/stretch to match it.