Update help files

[MBBIM]

Along the way i find some crucial stuff missing in the helpfiles.

I am creating my detail items and i think autodesk should mention that draw order only works if you use filled region.

Or is there a wiki revit help which is updated by the community ?

[barthbradley]

"You can sort the draw order of detail components in a view. Draw order options are available when you select detail components in the view."

What part of this Autodesk Knowledge Network statement is untrue? 

[loboarch · Accepted solution]

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@MBBIM wrote:

Along the way i find some crucial stuff missing in the helpfiles.

I am creating my detail items and i think autodesk should mention that draw order only works if you use filled region.

Or is there a wiki revit help which is updated by the community ?

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There is not a wiki for Help we can update based on user comments if necessary.  However in this case, draw order of detail items is NOT limited to filled regions. draw order of ALL detail elements can be altered using draw order.  Perhaps there is something else going on?

[MBBIM]

No as silly as it seems with a acad background and less vectorworks background i started drawing my detail items with lines. So i drew a window part in lines. If i put these detail item with lines over a wall the wall lines wil show trough (which is obvious afterwards). 

[barthbradley]

What? Detail items are placed on the detail plane of the view (the plane that is closest to you as you look at the view). You shouldn't see model elements in front of the detail plane. Is this what you are saying is happening? 

[MBBIM]

Conclusion i made and i think there should be something in the help file:

filled region is the best way to set up detail items, if you only use detail lines you probably and up doing a lot of masking.

[loboarch]

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@MBBIM wrote:

Conclusion i made and i think there should be something in the help file:

filled region is the best way to set up detail items, if you only use detail lines you probably and up doing a lot of masking.

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Thanks for the feedback. Typically we are not so prescriptive with how or when to use a specific tool. We try and describe how it works so users can have the information they need to make the right decision.  i will consider where I can put the information you suggested into the help. 

[barthbradley]

@loboarch: I'm still lost. What are we talking about? What "crucial" information is missing from the documentation? 

[ToanDN]

@barthbradley

Same here.  I don't think anything is missing.  Help documents are show us how to use the tools and that is it.  Which tool is one's favorite is none of their (documents) business.

[MBBIM]

If you draw timer say 5 by 8 in detail lines and place it the timber will not mask other objects in the detail view. Comming from autocad where you make blocks with lines and trim the background i started drawing with detail lines where i should have used filled regions to mask the other objects. No big deal but for me i still compare autocad with revit and in fact they are completly different. But im getting there.
Anthony
Netherlands

[ToanDN]

Sure.  Use whatever combination you find best suited.

- Lines in Revit = Lines in CAD

- Filled regions in Revit (transparent background) = Hatches + boundary in CAD

- Filled regions in Revit (opaque background) = Hatches + boundary + wipeouts in CAD

- Masking regions in Revit = Wipeouts in CAD

- Split tool in Revit = Trim command in CAD

[dplumb_BWBR]

>> If you draw timer say 5 by 8 in detail lines

If I may be harsh, that's the problem right there.

You shouldn't be drawing things like dimensional lumber or steel shapes using lines and/or Filled Regions.

You should be using parametric Detail Components that have masing regions embedded in them.

And are a single object instead of 6 lines.

And have intelligent data embedded

And can be Tagged

And can be Keynoted.

Or you can draw a bunch of dumb lines and Filled Regions and dumb Text. Your choice.

[MBBIM]

I do understand there are many options in REVIT.

I have been working with cad programns for the last thirty years but this one is a challenge.

thanks for all the posts.

I hope REVIT will grow in the Netherlands.

[dplumb_BWBR]

If you've been working in CAD for 30 years (so had I), that explains a lot.

CAD = Computer Aided Drafting

BIM = Building Information Modeling

The "I" there is the critical difference between the two.

When you're working in CAD, yes, there are advantages, but the basic concept is still that you are drawing a bunch of lines and adding notes. None of which really relate to each other. You draw a Line on a Layer named A-WALL and it thinks it's a Wall.  But you can also insert a furniture block on A-WALL, and it also thinks its a wall.

In BIM, when you model (note: model, not draft) a Wall, it is a Wall object. It can only be a Wall object, and a piece of furniture cannot be a Wall.

That Wall also has intelligence to it. It knows how thick it it, it knows its Thermal properties.

Likewise with Detailing.  The best detailing is cut directly from the model and elements in the detail are already there.

But that's not always possible, and that's where Detail Components come in. Sometimes you just need a graphic representation of something, and it's not worth modeling it. But that doesn't mean it should be just a bunch of lines, patterns and text.

Good Revit details use Detail Component families that also know what they are. A Timber beam in section doesn't have to be a rectangle with an X in the middle. It can be a parametric Detail Component that has a Width and a Height, and can be Tagged. Then, if and when the design changes, that family can simply be changes to a different Type (size), and it's graphics and its Tag will be updated automatically.

BTW, not sure where it would be in your library, but in the Out Of The Box US Imperial Library, there's a folder for Wood Framing, and another for Heavy Timber. So you don't even need to create your own family

C:\ProgramData\Autodesk\RVT 2018\Libraries\US Imperial\Detail Items\Div 06-Wood and Plastic\061100-Wood Framing\Rough Cut Lumber-Section.rfa