Up against the rails

Up against the rails

kgatzke
Collaborator Collaborator
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Message 1 of 8

Up against the rails

kgatzke
Collaborator
Collaborator

I don't think I'm trying to do anything extraordinary here.  I just want this handrail to wrap around so I can bring it into the first balluster of the guard on top of the wall.  You gave us this tool for editing the path of a handrail but it seems severely crippled by locking me into working in only two available planes.  Neither one will let me draw the lines needed to get back to that post.  I can stretch that last blue line on a plane I can't seem to access for editing.  Nor can I pick that line for a plane.  Why is that?  I need a plane common to both the top blue lines in this view.

 

grasping.PNG

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Message 2 of 8

ToanDN
Consultant
Consultant
Can you copy the existing parallel blue line to create a new segment?
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Message 3 of 8

kgatzke
Collaborator
Collaborator
Only on the same plane as the blue line following the slope of the host.

Kevin Gatzke
Architectural Designer
ANTINOZZI ASSOCIATES
ARCHITECTURE & INTERIORS
271 Fairfield Avenue
Bridgeport, Connecticut 06604
TEL (203) 377-1300
FAX (203) 378-3002
www.antinozzi.com
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Message 4 of 8

ToanDN
Consultant
Consultant

Looks like you tab selected the rail component of the Railing and used Edit Rail tool.  Why don't you edit path of the Railing instead?

Capture.PNG

 

Capture1.PNG

 

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Message 5 of 8

kgatzke
Collaborator
Collaborator
In the end it doesn't matter since the lateral rail projection is not allowed. Bags or clothing can get caught on it. I tried editing the path and more or less got what I wanted though I had to fight with Revit over the end heights and it to introducing this little vertical piece at the top of the slope after I added extra lines to the sketch.

That still doesn't explain a tool we can't use.
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Message 6 of 8

RDAOU
Mentor
Mentor

As you managed a solution already, so I’m just sharing a thought here.

 

I believe Revit tools function perfectly well to serve the purpose they were designed for (at least those for stairs and railing). If one would apply in Revit the same concepts one used for hand drafting in the early days before CAD was even there, all those vertical gaps and the stair/handrail warnings are gone. The problem lies neither in the Tools Revit provides nor the handrail itself but in the treads and risers and where they are configured, start/end, how the stair is designed/configured to function and not how Revit builds it. Example:

 

  1. The odd vs even no. of risers which effects the top rail and balusters' height (Revit measures the rail height considering the Tread’s start as ref. point. Hence the gap between stair top rail and landing/slab toprail)
  2. Staggering 1st and 2nd flight of the stair by 1 tread to avoid horrible/bulky stair2landing/slab detail and to fix projecting handrails into the landing
  3. Apply the old concepts of of ideal human scale and proportions. One takes off with the left foot should end with a left foot in order to catch the landing (in other words land) with the right foot; hence, maintaining the balanced walking rhythm L-R-L-R.
  4. The 2 Steps ahead Concept (ie: the 2 false steps of the stairs which are embedded in the landing/slab - stair reinforcement)

When we, at least I, first started working with CAD then Revit I kind of thought I could skip all those rules because I simply thought if Revit does all that it would do this for me too! But it didn't and I'm pretty sure no other software does. Anyhow; putting the above riddle together  in revit with minor tweaks does kill all the warnings and generate a smooth nice handrail just with a couple of clicks (nothing extraordinary)

 

HR Connect.png

 

 

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Message 7 of 8

kgatzke
Collaborator
Collaborator

I understand fully well how the geometry of handrails relative to treads and risers works and if this was a perfect world we would always establish stairs with a full tread level with the landing to give a smooth handrail transition.  The real world however is rarely so cooperative.  Constraints on space and hardships arising from existing conditions often prevent us from accomplishing anything close to perfection.  

 

That being said, I feel the tool is limited if it only fuctions well under ideal circumstances.  My lament is that Autodesk provides us with a tool to alter the path of a handrail relative to its path but then restricts us to one plane of operation.  I would rather use the system families and the annotative tools that come with them but since we often can't get them work in a manner even close to real world we're often forced to fudge, either with models-in-place, falsifying the host, curtain walls disguised as railings or, gods forbid, 2D.

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Message 8 of 8

RDAOU
Mentor
Mentor

Regardless of how the circumstances and setups varried, the tool has never failed and always give us the desired results just by applying simple logic and Geometry 101. Hence, I was just sharing a point of view thinking it might help one way or the other. and of course you don't have to agree with that 🙂

YOUTUBE | BIM | COMPUTATIONAL DESIGN | PARAMETRIC DESIGN | GENERATIVE DESIGN | VISUAL PROGRAMMING
If you find this reply helpful kindly hit the LIKE BUTTON and if applicable please ACCEPT AS SOLUTION