To move groups in next level without changing it elements ids.

[Anonymous]

We are having issues of losing all annotation when we change reference level of model element group. Also getting random mark value which, we are using for door window tags. We have found that it is mainly because Revit creates new elements when we change reference level.

I have tried all methods a: Changing group reference level, b: Changing group reference level with only 1mm in level difference, c: Grouping element with desired level and then changing only origin level offset etc but I have found it assign new element id no matter what.

FYI, we are almost done with our project documentation but have to create new level (200mm below the original level) and move only half of the buildings to this new levels.

I initially thought changing group reference level is similar to move command for vertical move but all the methods i know are exactly like copy and paste where it assigns new element ids to the elements.

Hope it is possible or may be i am not aware of some hidden command.

Please let me know if there is any

[barthbradley]

Attaching Detail Group?  

...Are you getting a "Random" Mark Value or a "New" Mark Value?  Typically,  Door Marks are Instance Marks.  

[Anonymous]

Yes that is correct bradely,

it is assigning random mark value as we are using Mark for door window numbering. 

Also we tested with shared parameter which vary by group instances. With shared parameter value get completely dropped when it is new elements. This is the reason i was looking for any command that will retain element IDs.

[barthbradley]

...If you want the doors to be tagged with the identical mark,  why not pull the "Type Mark"?

...Element IDs are unique.  You can't have two that are the same.  Nor can you assign Element IDs, which is basically what it sounds like what you want to do.  

...What Parameter Type is your Project Parameter?  

[ToanDN]

Create a new shared parameter in lieu of Mark and set it to NOT vary by group instance. Tag your elements in group with this and they can be the same among the same groups.

[FAIR59]

Try this ( small scale test succeeded 😞

• Save the group  , ( in project browser right click [ Save Group...]  / filename:  Same as group name )
• Open the group -file  ( rvt-file)
• Select all elements (including level(s)) and move 200 down.
• Save  and close group-file
• Reload group , ( in project browser right click [ Reload... ]  )  elements should now be in new position 
• In a section or elevation: select group, and drag the grouporigin down to new level.
• Select group and in properties-window change [ Reference Level ] and  [ Origin Level Offset ]

[RobDraw]

As @barthbradley already alluded to, the parameters you are tagging don't work the way you need them to. Make your own ID parameters and tags or just modify the existing tags to grab those parameters. Depending on your needs, those parameters can be preset in the family in a variety of ways, so they won't need to be edited after insertion.

[Anonymous]

Thank you all,

I have checked with Autodesk and seems, all the methods we can take to move groups in different levels is basically not move command compare to horizontal move that you can do in plan views. 

In conclusion, Autodesk may include this feature in future version of Revit but untill they do (Not sure it will ever happen), we will have to live with consequences if we have to split the levels later down the project.

Regards

Kiran

[barthbradley]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I have checked with Autodesk and seems, all the methods we can take to move groups in different levels is basically not move command compare to horizontal move that you can do in plan views. 

What does this mean exactly?  

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@Anonymous wrote:

In conclusion, Autodesk may include this feature in future version of Revit but untill they do (Not sure it will ever happen), we will have to live with consequences if we have to split the levels later down the project.

What does this mean exactly?  

[ToanDN]

I can change the reference level of a group all day long and the tags of the elements inside the group never change.

See a screencast in a few minutes. 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/c3171633-1aab-44c0-8c32-be42078bd844

Screencast will be displayed here after you click Post.

c3171633-1aab-44c0-8c32-be42078bd844

[barthbradley]

You may not even need to do a Screencast, @ToanDN  Just Google "move, copy and rotate Revit groups with one hand tied behind your back".  I'll bet you get a bunch of hits.  

[Anonymous]

Hi Bradely,

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@barthbradley wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

I have checked with Autodesk and seems, all the methods we can take to move groups in different levels is basically not move command compare to horizontal move that you can do in plan views. 

What does this mean exactly?  

You know that when you move any elements in plan view ti will still retain its elemetn IDs except when you disjoin. Even when you move vertically, say for example if you change base level of wall from level 1 to level 2, it will still keep the same element IDs. 

(Big But----------) it is not the case for the grouped elements. As it is group of elements, changing reference level of group will act as cut & paste when you change its reference level or base offset levels.

Hope it make sense now.

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@Anonymous wrote:

In conclusion, Autodesk may include this feature in future version of Revit but untill they do (Not sure it will ever happen), we will have to live with consequences if we have to split the levels later down the project.

What does this mean exactly?  

My support request is escalated to the second tier of Autodesk support. As it is group of elements rather than just one elements, It might be complicated to retain element IDs when you change reference level.

I did ask for options to keep or create new elements (Similar to disjoin selection for move command in plan view) . It might be too much of asking so i am not sure they can or will.

Hope this make sense.

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[Anonymous]

Pleae try that in complicated model.

Or just check the element ids and see is it same as berfore you move.

[barthbradley]

Yes @Anonymous, that's what I said above.  You cannot assign Element IDs.  I'm really curious to know why Element ID is a concern to you?  I don't think anyone has ever posted about this before.  

[ToanDN]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Pleae try that in complicated model.

Or just check the element ids and see is it same as berfore you move.

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Do you tag your doors using Element ID or Mark?