Tapered curtain wall mullion?

[Anonymous]

Hello Autodesk forum!

Currently working on a project with a timber curtain wall. We're looking at tapering the mullions, to make them less bulky. Basically, the top and bottom transom are less wide and we want the columns to follow that. See image attached (section).

Thought it would be simple to model with a void: model in place > curtain wall > void > cut void through existing curtain wall, but that doesn't work.

It's a really simple curtain wall with square profiles. Since we're in the construction phase I'd much rather amend current geometry/ maintain all tags that are associated with it, then model something new (generic model, columns, whatever). 

Any suggestions?

Section view of desired tapered mullion in blue

[barthbradley]

Why not place the timber supports as panels instead of mullions? 

[ToanDN · Accepted solution]

Change the vertical mullions to the smaller size and tag on a wedge shaped family in front of each mullion.

[barthbradley]

What???

[ToanDN]

What what?  not getting it?

[barthbradley]

I didn't understand you suggestion. Can you clarify?

Here's what I was thinking - Tapered Timber Panel instead of mullion

[Anonymous]

Thanks! That works for now. Allows me to keep all my tags 🙂

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your suggestion, much appreciated.

I see what you mean, but it would mean remodeling/ losing tags, which isn't feasible at this phase of construction.

[ToanDN]

I

What you suggested works too.

[David_Knight]

unrelated question:  I have been looking at different ways to identify brick patterns in elevations (ie: changing lineweights).  And have not seen a way to do it really easily...

However your image seems to have something like that done - do you have information on how you set that up?  is it linework? A special detail group used on top of your model? model lines meticulously drawn on the elevation?  I'm curious.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

I was wondering if someone would comment on the brickwork!

Initially, we used detail groups, but they slowed the model too much.

Now we are using linked CAD files, that are put in place in a 3D view. If you place them in a 3D view, instead of a 2D view, they appear everywhere (use separate workset to control). Added bonus is that you can view the bricks in 3D, making it easier to check if they run around the corners correctly. Here I've used two different line colours in AutoCAD and control the colour of them in Revit (VG).

This is by no means ideal, as it is a pain to place the 2D CAD files (use workplane - a lot) and if you have hatches in your CAD file they'll sometimes appear and sometimes not (hint: don't use hatches). Once in place, it's quite easy to make changes in the CAD file and just update in Revit.

If your pattern is simpler you can attempt to program a pat file. I've seen someone in my office do it and it's archaic, but once done gives fast performance and is easy to use. 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/search-result/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2015/ENU/RevitLT-Customize/fil...

Hope this helps.

[David_Knight]

Would you mind walking me through your process for inserting the cad file in 3d?  I do not see a way to do it, except at a floor level (which is in the wrong axis).  Once it is in, I do not see a way to rotate it about the z-axis.

Perhaps the trick is to draw it in the z-axis in autocad? Other thoughts, did you create a face-based family with the cad file linked in it, then apply the face based family to the model in 3d?  

I just cant figure out how you got the cad file in the vertical axis.  Great technique, I would love to know more.

Thank you!

**Edit**

I'm a dummy.  Let's chalk it up to i just finished my first cup of coffee.  I needed to be in the side elevation view to rotate around it on the axis I needed it spun on (not in plan, or 3d).  So - I got it!

Thank you for sharing your process! It's very helpfull.

[Anonymous]

Haha no worries. Coffee = life.

It's a while ago since I did it but I remember just hitting "link CAD" whilst in a 3D view.

[barthbradley]

Insightful incidental discussion between you two. Thanks for starting it off @David_Knight and thanks for the lucid explanation @Anonymous. 

Cheers!

[Anonymous]

how do use a generic model as a curtain wall mullion? 

[reubeno_pt]

You can't. I suspect those generic models were just positioned in front of the mullions(?). I'm just looking at this for a project now and weighing up my options on how we do this.

Could nest the generic into a curtain panel. That way they'd be on a similar set of element categories if you're using filters or visibility graphics to manage them in views. They'll also be easy(er) to manage the heigh of if the transom levels change.