Shared Parameters & Tags

[Cory-Dubeau]

Good afternoon everyone,

Thank you kindly in advance for taking the time to read my long-winded question. I am quite new to working with Revit's modelling intelligence and have been recently stumped by something that I know *when* I get, will save me loads of time!

Essentially, I got this bright idea to embed lintel data into door and window openings so that my structural engineer can simply schedule them. It'd be ideal to have this information baked in and simply report them on tags and schedules. Currently on my "CAD" side, I simply employ the use a text-based block, but I realize it's a bit more involved with Revit's instanced geometry.

I followed a few different tutorials on YouTube, which have led me to the same end.. no tags appearing. I will try my best to reiterate my process (and troubleshooting steps) as best as I can:

From a high-level, at the Project Parameters point, I created a new Parameter, under the Category of both Door and Windows (so they both could record a text-based input from an instance parameter). If you look to the left of my screenshot, I have a Common Discipline (which accepts text strings well), text as my input "type" and grouped under Structural.

After confirming this dialog and creating a new Shared Parameters *.txt file, I was delighted to see the aforementioned appear in my Door and Window Instance Properties:

I followed a couple of different tutorials which gave me the same approach to creating a custom tag. I loaded up Revits' "Generic Tag" family and quickly added the Shared Parameter label as show below- note the "Structural Framing" Field dropdown:

Before saving and uploading the Family back into my host file, I ensured that the Family Category and Parameters were set correctly (I believe). I ensured that "Structural Framing Tags" were selected so that I could slot my tag into Revits' master "Loaded Tag & Symbols" dialog:

After doing this, I re-assigned my new tag in Revits' Tag Loader as shown below:

After ensuring everything was lined up, I used the "Tag All Not Tagged" dialog, which is usually brilliant but after running it, nothing appeared:

I should note, I tried baking in the "Lintel" data field into individual doors and windows to see if that would change anything (my "green" is showing), but to no avail.

I apologize if this has been asked before, but I feel this particular aspect of reporting user-generated attributes in objects would be extremely powerful, if correctly employed.

Edit: I also checked to see if a phase issue or visibility issue was present.. nothing of the sort! Could "structural discipline" items be hidden beyond my usual means of finding them?

Any help or advice on the matter is deeply appreciated!

Kind regards,

Cory the "new-ish" Revit user trying to leave acad.

[barthbradley]

Did you actually build a Lintel "Structural Framing" Family, make it Shared and nest it into the Door Family?  In other words, is there any Structural Framing there for the tag to tag? 

[barthbradley]

wait a minute. The Lintel information is pulled from a Shared Parameter/Project Parameter that is assigned to Doors?  And you put a value into this Parameter Field under the Door Properties? And, your Door Tag has a Label that is created from this same exact same Shared Parameter that the Project Parameter is using?   

[Cory-Dubeau]

Thank you for the quick reply, it's great to have more hands on deck!

Humbly, I have not modelled anything new- I just added a Project Parameter to all Doors and Windows to accept a text-based "string" to be recalled from a tag.

Do you suspect the issue is that structural-based tags cannot recall data from "architectural" objects, even if they have structurally-oriented parameters?

I'm trying my best to cheat and minimize modelling effort- at least for plan views. It might almost be a necessity for section cuts, perhaps?

[Cory-Dubeau]

You are absolutely right! Sorry it's a bit convoluted..

So I have a "vanilla" door tag to report it's type mark, and I was hoping to create a separate tag to report the doors' instance-based lintel for it- (since lintel needs might fluctuate based on what the roofing manufacturer, or engineer requires).

I typically create two drawings, per plan to show the difference between architectural elements and structural elements for clarity. But I'm working a bit ahead of a new project by trying to learn how I could exploit Revit's intelligence for objects to hopefully curate quick lists and tag things easier. I've seen folks use model groups with text, but I'm trying to do it the right way as best as I can. I'm sure the answer is right in front of me!

[barthbradley]

If there is not Structural Family in the Door Family - as a Shared Family -then there is nothing to Tag.  Right now, all you've done is add more data to your Door Properties. If you want a Door Tag to read/report this data, then you need to pull the data into the Tag Family Label.  To do that, the Parameter needs to be a Shared Parameter and that Parameter is the one used for both the Tag Label and the Project Parameter that is assigned to the Door Category.  

[Cory-Dubeau]

Okay, I believe I might be on to something here-!

So, I've fiddled with the settings of the tag, itself. I adjusted the Category Parameters- deriving the "Lintel" string as such:

I suppose because you can only pull from one type of category at a time (ie: Doors, Windows, Openings, etc.) I'll essentially need LintelDoor, LintelWindow, LintelOpenings, etc. ?

The other interesting thing to note is that because I'm pulling the Parameter from "Doors" now, that the Tag by Category dialog only permits one type of tag at any given time. I would have to manually select which applicable tag I want to use to do the tagging in two steps:

But if it works, it works! The above isn't really a deal-breaker since I'll be tagging lintels on a separate sheet, anyways! I suppose there's no way around this without modelling something into each family under the correct category? I think this accidental discovery might just be the fastest / easiest way to go ahead, if you agree? 🙂

[barthbradley]

I can see the light bulb over head from here!  Looks pretty bright!   😉 

[ToanDN]

If you want to use a Structural Framing Tag then you need:

- a shared structural framing, it can be without any geometry, just a linework or symbol should do

- nest it in the door family

- associate parameter of the nested family with the door family so you can change it directly in the project

- when tag in the project, use TAB to pick the lintel

Another way is simply change the Structural framing tag to a Door tag and use it to tag the door in the project where you need to show the lintel tags.

[Cory-Dubeau]

Hahaha, credit where credit is due! I am extremely grateful for the help- time to nail down that perfect template! 😎👊

(Plus, there was only so much complaining my cat could handle- plus he's not an avid Revit user, so he doesn't understand!)

[Cory-Dubeau]

@ToanDN , I really like your idea of nesting a "hidden" line into whichever families needed. Pardon the newbie question, but how would one go about creating a model line, or extrusion under a different category in the same model- would you need to import a model line, or extrusion under the "Structural framing" type? (This could be handy if I'm cutting sections as opposed to having to fake it later).

As for the latter, I found that this might be the lesser of the two evils- at least for now. It would admittedly be a pain if I needed to tag a lot of doors on the same floor plan, but since I'm splitting my architecture from structural placeholder drawings, I can always swap my "door tags" from the Loaded Tags and Symbols menu:

I suppose you learn something new every day! In today's case- a lot! I appreciate your thoughts and ideas as to how best to streamline this very particular work(able?) flow!

[barthbradley · Accepted solution]

It's all about Nesting Shared Families.  

About Nesting and Sharing Loadable Families | Revit 2018 | Autodesk Knowledge Network

[Cory-Dubeau]

This article on nested families is exactly what I'm (accidentally) starting to learn about! It's definitely a great starting point, and should stick since I have a more practical example to use! It's not all-too-far from nesting blocks within blocks, but the added functionality of extracting parameters can surely be invaluable.

Thank you both so much for the great help, I'll be sure to work with these more as my confidence grows with Revit! 🙏