Section referencing wrong sheet number

[Pshupe]

I am adding a wall section from a floor plan view.  The floor plan view is placed on sheet A201.  When I place the section on that view my referencing sheet is not A201, but A211.  A211 is a different view copied from A201.  It seems to be related to the place where I put the section as well.  Here is an image where I placed two sections, on this view which is on sheet A201.  The lower section is referencing correctly the upper one is not.  

 Is there a way I can change the referencing sheet to be correct?  It seems to be greyed out in the properties of the view.  Thank you in advance.

Regards Peter.

[barthbradley]

What Parameter is the Tag Label reading? 

[Jason_S · Accepted solution]

Have you tried going to 211 and hide the section.  Then go back to 201 and make sure it updates.  Then you should be able to unhide the section on 211 and it should keep 201 as its reference.  

[ToanDN]

The whole idea of referencing sheet is pretty much useless tell you the truth.  It was grandfathered in from CAD standards where you manually go back and fourth between details by their sheet number / detail number. 

In Revit, it only works in theory when you have one plan view and one section.  As long as you have multiple plan views, be it from other levels, or from duplication and whatnots, the section now can cross or show in more than one view, which in turn renders the whole idea of referencing to one particular view useless.

[HVAC-Novice]

I'm not sure I'm following. If an architectural section goes through say 3 floor levels, it should show up on all 3 floor levels. And you can filter out so that M-section don't show up on A-views and so on. 

Maybe I misunderstand what you say, but for me they behave and show up exactly the way I want. Occasionally I have to manually hide some on the floor above or so if the section still shows the floor above, but not something important from the level above. You also can filter them out by scale (which also has disadvantages)

[ToanDN]

No that is not what @Pshupe and I are talking about.

[barthbradley]

Don't feel bad - I have no idea what those guys are talking about either.  😉  I'm still wondering what the problem is. The OP's screenshot has a red arrow drawn from a Section Marker with a Referencing Sheet number to a Titleblock Sheet Number. What's the correlation?  Referencing Sheet and Sheet Number are two entirely different things.   

@Pshupe: What am I missing?  

[Pshupe]

Both of those sections were placed on that view at the same time.  One references the correct sheet the other references a sheet where a different view sits.  Seems to change depending where it is placed??

Again I placed both of those sections on a Ground Floor Plan view.  That Ground Floor Plan view was placed on sheet A201, which is obvious by the snippit showing the titleblock.  Why is a section placed on a view that is on a sheet named A201 showing that it actually is placed on a different view sitting on a different sheet?

I created this 3 reference section head using a label that should pickup the referencing Sheet.  I assume this is correct?  As I said, not sure why it's picking up a different sheet reference when I placed both those sections at the same time.

Another strange thing here.  If I go to the view - Ground Floor Plan.  It says the sheet number is A201 but the Referencing Sheet is A113,  which is where the building sections are??  Am I fundamentally missing something here?  Here is a snipit from the view - Ground Floor Plan - 

I need to have sections placed on these views to show the correct sheet where the views are/were placed.  That's the way they should work, right??

Regards Peter.

[HVAC-Novice]

Why do you have the option to show multiple sheets/views? Mine (based on oob) only show one.  Did you manipulate yours to show 2? I'm still not sure what is actually asked or happening. Did it always work the wrong way for you, or just on this project? Maybe back track what changed since. 

[Pshupe]

It is common, mostly for structural engineers to have two references.  One is the sheet where the detail sits.  The other where the detail is taken.  If you are looking at a hard copy of the drawings and find a detail, it is handy to have the location where the detail is taken.  You can then go back to that sheet and find where the section, call out, or elevation applies.  IMO that is why Revit has the "referring view" as an option.  If you are in the Revit model I can look in the Properties Palette to find where the detail is taken, this would be the same thing but placed in the marker so you can find it with a hard copy or pdf set.

Yes I manipulated mine, as evidenced by the section marker image I posted.  I created this with the parameter shown.  Again, IMO that is what the "referencing sheet" is for.

That points out a good question - should I be changing that "referencing sheet" to "referencing detail"??

Regards Peter.

Regards Peter.

[barthbradley]

@Pshupe wrote:

It is common, mostly for structural engineers to have two references. 

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Really? It isn't common in my neck of the woods. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen it done, and I've seen and done a lot of plans in my career.  Frankly, I think it would be terribly confusing to the plan reader - if they can even read it.     

What size are your heads and fonts anyways? Just curious.  Seems like an awful lot of text/numbers to pack into the bottom half of a typical-sized round head.  I would imagine your heads are slightly bigger than normal so that the text/numbers are legible on the plans.  

[ToanDN]

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@barthbradley wrote:

Frankly, I think it would be terribly confusing to the plan reader - if they can even read it.     

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Second this. 

[mhiserZFHXS]

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@barthbradley wrote:

@Pshupe wrote:

It is common, mostly for structural engineers to have two references. 

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Really? It isn't common in my neck of the woods. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen it done, and I've seen and done a lot of plans in my career.  Frankly, I think it would be terribly confusing to the plan reader - if they  

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I've seen it ONCE in some old (50+ years old old) drawings I was referencing for a remodel project, and yea, it was confusing. Especially since that detail really exists all over a project. There's a reason we work the other way. Something isn't built multiple ways where multiple details would apply. Its built one way, so there is one detail to reference it. A single detail could exist in a project in dozens or hundreds of places though. Saying it exists on this one page can be misleading and a potential error point.

[barthbradley]

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@mhiserZFHXS wrote:

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Saying it exists on this one page can be misleading and a potential error point.

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😉

[HVAC-Novice]

Sorry for going a bit off-topic to your original problem. But where the section bubble is, that would be the sheet it would show. isn't it obvious if I look at sheet "A100" that the section on that sheet is on sheet "A100". Or am I misunderstanding? 

Where it would be helpful where the section was taken would be on the actual section view. but since the section could show up on multiple sheets, that may have its disadvantages. But based on this thread I got the idea to play with my view title and a section would show where I would find the view that section was taken from:

Edit: oh wait no... this just shows the sheet number and name where the section view is located, not where it is on a floor plan. that seems to be redundant information. 

Edit again: there is a parameter called "Referencing sheet" that seems to do what I want. For a section that doesn't cross levels (and with that it doesn't show on multiple floor plans) it shows the sheet it was referenced from. 

I made a separate view port type for sections since on floor plans it wouldn't make sense to show them. it only shows the sheet number, not the name. but that is fine. Sorry for hijacking this thread.... but it made me think up some new ideas.

[Pshupe]

It shouldn't be confusing at all. It's the only way to find where the detail is taken from the hard copy or pdf set or construction documents.  The sheet number on the right is the sheet that the detail exists.  The sheet number on the left is where the detail is taken from.  It is a graphical way to find the "referring view".  That's it.  If it is a typical detail and exists more than one place then you use a different view title and section marker.  Maybe that is where I am going wrong?  I should do it in the view title only?  It is a little redundant to show the sheet name of the sheet you are looking at.

Maybe I didn't explain it correctly.  It's meant to point you from the detail on the detail sheet back to where the detail was taken.  I guess I could do it as I just said, with a view title pointing back to the sheet where the detail is taken?

Sorry, I'm working on some other stuff here and don't have much time to work on this right now.  Does that clear up what I am trying to accomplish?

Regards Peter.

[lucdoucet_msdl · Accepted solution]

@Pshupe 

When the view tag of a view (View A = wall section in your case) uses both the current sheet (A201 in your case) and reference sheet (A111 in your example) instance parameters, the value of the reference sheet is determined by a the lowest sheet number that has another view (View B) in which the View A appears.

For example, View A appear in views on sheets A111, A112, A113, A201, A202, A203, etc, the reference sheet will be A111. I presume the logic is when consulting a set of sheets, you start from the first sheet and the first time you see the tag of View A it will reference 01/A111/A201 or detail 01 from sheet A111 see sheet A201.

To verify, select the View A in the project browser (or in a view where it appears) and right-click, choosing "Search associated views". This will guide you in finding the views on sheet A111 where View A appears and you can mask it. Repeat for each sheet between A111 and A201 until the reference sheet shows A201.

If you want View A to be visible on sheets series A100 but have a reference sheet showing A201 (which OOTB Revit reference sheet parameters won't allow), you will need a workaround. I suggest you create a custom view tag with a project parameter assigned to views and manually input the reference sheet values. The custom tag for these views will then need to read the added view project parameter rather than the instance sheet reference parameter.

Hope this helps,

-luc

[Pshupe]

Great explanation and it seems to do just that.  Unfortunately A111 is a Fire Separation Plan, which has no sections or callouts of any kind.  I guess it was bad luck in the naming of the sheets. 

Although this seems like a silly workflow.  In general construction documentation I would want the section reference to be the view / sheet where it was placed.  eg. If I have an overall floor plan - A201 which has a scale of 1:100.  I may have a call out that shows a blowout of an area in that plan at 1:50.  Like a stair or office area.  Let's call that A301.  When I place a section on A301.  I want the reference to show A301, where the section is placed.  This is just common construction document workflow.  I look at a blow up / call out of an area to find details about that area and may even have those sections turned off on the 1:100 because it gets way too cluttered.  This is not good and really does not work whatsoever.  I guess that's why most people do not use this method when they go to Revit?

Frankly, a manually adjusted work around is not reasonable.  The whole point of Revit referencing is the ability to change sheets and detail numbers and having the references automatically update.  Thanks.

Regards Peter.

[mhiserZFHXS]

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@Pshupe wrote:

Great explanation and it seems to do just that.  Unfortunately A111 is a Fire Separation Plan, which has no sections or callouts of any kind.  I guess it was bad luck in the naming of the sheets. 

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Yea, but as I was saying, even though you don't see it, that detail still exists there. This is why the system is flawed.

[Pshupe]

EUREKA!  

I have changed my mind.  This works very well.  One caveat!  All I have to do is hide the section, either by element or category, and it automatically changes to the next sheet reference.  "THIS IS BRILLIANT"!

I usually do not give Autodesk enough credit when it comes to things in Revit but this is awesome.  Thank you very much for the reply.

Cheers Peter.