Revit will not make walls that I can use for Shipping Container Architecture

[sdbender]

I do shipping container architecture. I want a profiled metal wall that looks like my shipping container wall panel in all views AND will host doors, windows, mechanical and electrical devices, etc. I am not interested in another workaround. I want this to work. I bought Revit thinking that it would be the right software for my architecture niche. More than a year in, I have become a very proficient user but can't find any way to answer my needs in the software. This is costing me a lot of time/money in lost productivity and work-around experimentation.

Current model in Revit 2017.2

Autodesk, please make it possible to have wall types that can be based on profiles, even as this as 2 millimeters. Or make it possible for me to host doors and windows (that create requisite voids) on other Revit elements, like generic models so that I can use imported geometry. Thank you.

Things I have tried:

1.  Making a basic wall and using a profile to create a repetitive reveal on one side.

Drawbacks:

• Only looks like the container wall panel on one side.
• Creates strange artifacts because of interference with the profile/reveal around the edges of hosted elements (doors and windows).

2.  Making a curtain wall using a panel profile.

Drawbacks:

• Cannot host doors, windows, etc.
• Difficult to keep an accurate position.

3. Using imported geometry from Sketchup (or another modeler), placing generic Revit walls in this geometry and hiding them in views then hosting the elements to the hidden walls. 

Drawbacks:

• Difficult to manage visibility.
• Must use solid filled regions to mask the panels where they show up in plans, elevations, sections, etc.

Here is an example of a model that has been created using all of the above-mentioned workarounds. I lost weeks trying to make the document set read properly.

<iframe src="https://gmail113641.autodesk360.com/shares/public/SHabee1QT1a327cf2b7ad1614f28630bc3f2?mode=embed" width="640" height="480" allowfullscreen="true" webkitallowfullscreen="true" mozallowfullscreen="true"  frameborder="0"></iframe>

http://a360.co/2I6ToLr

[barthbradley]

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@sdbender wrote:

I do shipping container architecture. I want a profiled metal wall that looks like my shipping container wall panel in all views AND will host doors, windows, mechanical and electrical devices, etc. I am not interested in another workaround. I want this to work.

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"Not interested in another workaround"??? Too bad. I can think of several approaches.  Let me know if you become interested.  I'd be happy to share them with you if you are receptive.  

[sdbender]

Lol. My frustration is evident... give it a shot.
I am interested in approaches that are closer to bonafide solutions than
workarounds. My internet searches for new alternatives have been coming up
empty. Thanks in advance for whatever you've got. I'm about to start on a
much larger project and I am not convinced at the moment that I
should pursue it in Revit. However, the alternative is not pretty. BTW,
even if you've got a good workaround, wouldn't it would be nice to have a
bit more "hosting" flexibility in Revit?

[barthbradley]

Ha! Maybe you're just too far down the rabbit hole. Come back up to the surface. We have In-Place Components. That's one way you could do it.  Make your In-Place Wall via Extrusion method.  Want to hear other approaches? 

[barthbradley]

This shipping container family works great in an In-Place Component Family (Wall Category). It hosts Windows and Doors just fine. Is it a workaround? Heck, whatever you want to called it, it behaves like a Wall -- and it took less time to create than writing this post. I had the shipping container family in my Library.  

[sdbender]

I was optimistic about this approach. I've modeled a portion of a profiled
wall using In-place Component, wall, and extruding geometry. Here is what
happens when I try to host a door or window...
[image: Capture10.PNG]

[sdbender]

I was optimistic about this approach. I've modeled a portion of a profiled wall using In-place Component, wall, and extruding geometry. Here is what happens when I try to host a door or window... Does your extrusion have a substantial thickness?

[barthbradley]

No image attached. But, why not build your standard-sized containers as families, and nest them into  In-Place Components of the Category Type Wall? 

[sdbender]

I redid the post with image. I tried nesting the geometry in an In-place wall but it won't host. Probably because it doesn't like the imported geometry. I hesitate to remodel all of the geometry in Revit only to get the same result as above...

[barthbradley]

Imported Geometry??? That's out of left field! You're talking something completely different thing now.  "Imported Geometry" implies non-native Revit elements.  I thought you were asking how to make corrugated metal wall cladding in Revit.  I'm lost.  But, as you can see from both my above pictures, I am having no issue whatsoever creating a "Shipping Container" Wall Type that hosts Windows and Doors. Regarding your question about "thickness", keep in mind that your finished wall will have thickness. I mean , you're going to have other layers in the Wall type; right? Studs, Blocking, Insulation, Sheetrock, etc. No? 

[sdbender]

Your shipping container wall type is not accurate. It appears to have a thickness. I do not find it satisfactory for my purposes. Sometimes I add insulation/framing layers but not always. I need the ability to have a "naked" container receive a door or window or even a plain opening or an opening that I frame with steel tube. I need the ability to add the layers to the inside or the outside of a container. I need the container to be a "thing" that is being modified. I also tip and flip these units. 

Regarding geometry:

I have used both native geometry and non-native geometry. I have completely modeled an accurate container as a revit project made up of parts that are families (i.e columns, corner castings, wall panels, top tubes, bottom bents, channel joists, etc) which is the held together as a group. I have also tried to import the geometry as dxf, dwg, from other modelers where I have already invested the time to make an accurate model (accuracy is necessary since this is a ready-made construction element). After doing this wall in-place experiment today, I am not prepared to invest the time necessary to rebuild the whole thing again from extrusions, etc, in a family and then bring it into a Revit project and expect it to work based on the outcome above. I'm not sure what the variable is but after a few more tries with different components, I did get the "extrusion-made in-place wall" to host a window but it does not void the wall correctly. It leaves a lot behind. See here...

[barthbradley]

Whatever. I can do a 12-gauge thickness wall - and host a Window or Door to it.  Are you curious how?  Probably not, since it's a "workaround". Still, it took less than a minute. I am winded though. I need to take a nap now. 

[sdbender]

I'm not trying to be a jerk, btw. I am just trying to get things to work. I just finished a set of drawings that caused me great distress and still have an unsatisfactory result. I'm burned out too. I'll still be curious when you wake up. I appreciate your thoughts. I've noticed that you are very helpful on this forum. Don't take my pickiness as an insult, it's just pickiness.

[barthbradley]

You need to think about the components' construction. Obviously, the OOTB Wondow and Door family is not going to affix themselves to a 12-gauge wall. Revit cannot make their geometry at that thickness. That's why it's erroring out. Modify the families to insert in a wall, irrespective of the wall's thickness. Use a fixed frame depth; say 4 9/16" deep, which is more representational of the actual minimum depth of a manufacturer's frame.  And, replace the "Opening" with a Void Cut -- unconstrained to the inside and outside edges of the wall to which it is hosted to.   Check  "Cut with Voids when Loaded" so you can independently cut through all the wall layers that you add on later.  

Get it? 

...certainly hope I get a lil' green check mark for this.  Just saying.   

[sdbender]

I had used the "cuts with voids" option with this window family to get the pictured result. Since then I've tried creating another set of voids, inside and outside of the planes of the window frames. Nothing gets rid of the flutes of the wall panel that show up in the image. It seems that Revit can't understand that the "wall" being cut is not continuously planar. So, it "forgets" to remove these pieces of the wall. I can't think of a way to trick it.

I see this eror when I try to place a generic Opening family...

(http://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2017/ENU/?guid=GUID-3C9C035F-BFA8-44A5-923A-C4E75F5D5E1C)

Can’t Cut Instances Out of Wall
This error displays when you move a wall-hosted element, and the geometry cannot regenerate properly.

Error: Can't cut instance of <family> out of wall

Issue: Revit cannot regenerate the geometry to display the moved model component.

If you move a door or a window (or other wall-hosted components) in such a way that Revit cannot regenerate the geometry properly, this message displays.

I'm giving up for now. Here's the file if you want to mess with it.

[barthbradley]

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@sdbender wrote:

I'm giving up for now. Here's the file if you want to mess with it.

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So, I guess that means no lil' green check mark or even a kudo?

Yah...I'd have to say then: Don't hold your breath.  

Bye, bye now. 

[sdbender]

Sorry. No offense intended.

How do I kudo?

It would be weird to accept a solution since we didn't find one.

Is that normal?

I won't hold my breath in any case.

Thank you for trying.

[barthbradley]

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@sdbender wrote:

It would be weird to accept a solution since we didn't find one.

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What more could we possibly provide you? Seems to me your question was answered fully and cooperatively, in spite of your resistance.  Revit can do what you want, which I think is fundamentally what you needed to know. Have I not demonstrated to you with words and pictures, that Revit is perfectly capable of doing what you want to do? That's a solution all day long and twice on Sunday, in my book.  

[dgorsman]

A quick side note.  While using shipping containers as architectural/structural pieces is trendy it's still uncommon in the overall world of building, so this will currently be an edge/corner case for Revit.  That means almost certainly there will need to be a number of work-arounds required.

Given the more mechanical nature of this type of construction, I can't help but wonder if Inventor might be a better solution.

[barthbradley]

With all do respect, Revit is VERY capable as accomplishing this task. It's not about the software. Period.