Revit on Mac (Boot camp) vs PC

[Anonymous]

I hope someone can help decide the best option to operate autocad, revit and other 3d programs related to commercial kitchen design 

First option is operating on Mac Book Pro using Boot Camp

Second option is operating on a PC Laptop.

Which are the cons & pros about using these options.

Our projects can include large kitchen inside 60 story buildings.

Please advise

[aghis_no]

I am teaching architecture and my students use both solutions. So according to what I have seen I would definitely go for the PC laptop option.

1. For the price of a MacBook pro, you can find a better laptop PC. Dell, Lenovo, HP have professional laptops that are much faster with much better graphics cards and faster SSDs. If you want to be able to render, work on large complex models, from my experience and there is no comparison, the best way to go is a professional range PC laptop.

2. The Mac has a poor software ecosystem, all software (and of course Revit) do not exist in native versions, and although boot camp or parallels is a possible way to go it still not worth it to go through such a complication, for the amount of money you will spend.

3. On the contrary of what is commonly believed, my students crash much more often on Macs than on PCs. Often people compare a 2000$ MacBook running office and illustrator with a 300$ PC laptop running Revit and of course in that case a mac might be better. However, resource-demanding applications like Revit, Rhino, 3DsMax or AutoCAD will run better on a professional range laptop PC.

4. You have a wider range of products to address your needs. You have PC laptops that can be used as tablets as well as more classic laptops, most of them are tactile and you can use all type of applications.

5. You have to keep in mind that a PC laptop needs to be clean! Often vendor or constructor specific applications installed with the PC are resource consuming and unstable. You have to keep tour laptop clean, some vendors have what is called "signature widows" products, this means that there is no extra junk-ware installed, just the OS.

The only reason you might want a MacBook Pro is aesthetics, or that you are totally under the latest apple frenzy. If so then you might accept a leaser performance.

Hope i did not hurt the feeling of anyone,

regards
aghis

[Anonymous]

What Laptop PC you would recommend in 2016?

[Anonymous]

I'm currently running Revit via Parallels on a MBP 13 specced to the hilt. Bootcamp is a hassle beacuse Apple write really poor (i'm being polite) drivers for windows. Paralells side steps this problem.

I will be replacing this MBP with a PC though due to cost/perfromance ratio as I now use a computer pretty much only for Revit, Gimp or bigger doc's, otherwise I use my ipad.

As aghis_no says, there is no reson to buy a Mac for the purpose (I already had this one).

My research indicted that Revit uses the GPU less than you'd expect, utilising the CPU for alot of the graphics processing. So, I'd get the best CPU you can, an SSD for your OS & Revit and min 16GB RAM.

[aghis_no]

CPU and CPU speed is important, so i suggest you get the fastest you can afford.

SSD will change you life (everything is faster... in general)!

RAM min 16gb.

As far as touch interface is concerned you will not need it for revit (for now), but you can use it one other software, so this is up to you.

hope it helps

aghis

[Anonymous]

For the best laptops to do any Revit tipe of 3d modelling ,look at a MSI Workstation ,these have been develop for the use of 3d software.

[Anonymous]

It won't be about feelings, cause I don't have feelings for machines. I have respect for serious producers of machines.

As a person that studied architecture and that used PCs and Mac Pros, I can tell that reading this comment it's like to get inside a computer shop during the '90s and listen, with patience, the "lecture" of the clerk about the amazing Windows OS and the power of PCs.

Archeology.

First, with the price of a BMW it's difficult to buy a "common" car that it's better than a BMW, just for the fact that it doesn't exist. 

Second point. In 12 years of intense use of mac, I had 2 crashes. With my older PCs, I had hours of maintenance every week to clean that dish washer from trojan, spyware and sometimes viruses. To crash was absolutely normal, specially during the Summer. Defragmenting was a duty.

Saying that Macs crashes often and more often than a common or good laptop it's false. This is a lack of experience in both of the OS universe.

Third. There are professionals who buy a Mac just to install and use Windows on it. No other OS. Is it crazy? No. It's proven that Windows and softwares that run under it, they work faster and smoother on an Apple computer. Don't you believe me? Try it.

It's true that with a Quadro you can make giant leaps but you have to deal with everything else, called Windows.

Finally, I think there is people, specially students, that buy Macs for the look but I can't think that every year there are 20 million people buying a mac for the exterior shell or the glowing apple on the back of the screen.

Thanks for your attention.

Best Regards, 

Tony

[Anonymous]

Tony, Thank you for your response.. It was very useful.







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[Anonymous]

Your question is one that continues to haunt me. I used to be a PC guy I was buying Alienware's before they were bought out. I say that because they were considered a respectable high end machine. I had it for like 4 years and with the 3 year protection plan, I ended up using it many times, replacing motherboard, both hard drives, videocard, and in the end a new video card is what caused me to break up with pc. With PC it was a must to learn how to defrag the hard drive, and a bunch of other maintenance. I wasn't even using them for design programs only for gaming and other basic stuff.

I went to Mac in 2009 just before starting architecture school. I made it through undergrad and have only worn out one of the ram sticks and was able to run Adobe illustrator, photoshop, indesign, AutoCAD, and Rhino. I got a second one, passed the first to my wife who uses it still for basic stuff, that I continue to run all those programs and I have to say that I have never had a crash even while running all of those programs at the same time and having a game playing on a web tab in the background and/or a movie from HULU streaming on another screen. So as for MAC VS PC Mac will win hands down. My school uses all PC so I frequently have to go back and forth between the two systems. I will say I enjoy the MAc slightly better due to the fact that I do not need to be an IT Tech to operate the MAC and it is a bit simpler.

As far as programs and Bootcamp is I rarely go into bootcamp although I have it and parallels setup. Because of that I have not learned Revit. I have been able to do everything up till this point with other programs on the MAC. Even Rhino had officially crossed over to MAC. I am only currently looking to put Revit on my bootcamp system. I have talked to an Architect from NYC that said his firm crossed over to PC because he was sick of them not having the programs for MAC. At this time I am also considering going back to PC and have talked to some about this and the recommendation was to get a PC desktop and keep MAC laptop do most of the work on the MAC and then use the cheaper desktop for running programs like Revit on the desktop. A friend even set up remote desktop for his systems so he can work the desktop remotely for this.

This is a long winded way of saying that I prefer the MAC but I am not a fan of bootcamp because it just sucks but rightfully so since it isn't meant to be a MAC OS replacement. If you really need to program then get the one that has a system that supports it. Do not buy arguments that people only like MACs becasue they are pretty as Dell makes one that looks very similar to a Macbook Pro.

[RDAOU]

I can in short put my experience with and between Mac and PC as follows

I ve spent 10500 USD on to build my PC up to the same performance I have on my Mac I bought for 3500 USD + 905 USD to upgrade rams to 128 (vs 512 on my PC) and still I enjoy working on my MBP more (Bootcamp)

So can one pimp a VW bettle to beat a Porche? Maybe yes but a Porche will always be a Porche and a VW will remain simply a VW no matter how much you pimp it sooner or later you will realize its was a bad investment

If you are a budget person, an out of the box PC Desk or laptop will do ...to every 500,000 cars on the road you would find 1 Lamborghini...the former still make it to work everyday : o)

[jens_lathouwers · Accepted solution]

Hi Tony,

I searched google for 'Revit on Mac is it a good idea'. You want to know why? Cause I used to work on my own desktop during my time at university using Revit. With very large files the experience would slow down but when using the right way of building a model I was able to keep that to a minimum. Now I'm working as an architect at a firm where the philosophy is to only work on Mac. I'm running Revit in parallels on a 3500 € I Mac. The experience is horrible. Revit is super slow, more or less from the beginning of a project. I'm having the same experience that I had when I was using my old core-2-duo laptop. So yeah, experience with both os'es and native windows for Revit is definitely the way to go.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Aghis, providing this information is still the current status of "Macs" (now there is quite a range of Mac's from ones using integrated to one w/ discrete GPU's w/ dedicated RAM) running Revit, I'm getting a good PC** - if I can figure out what that entails w.r.t. using Revit on smaller projects but needing: true perspective, shadows, and texture rendering capability, and hopefully color too.  I'd settle for a system capable of 1st three.  I don't need an over the top workstation - with the associated cost,  capable of rendering large-scale projects

So:  any guidance on what level of pc GPU to go for?    

I believe something with an i7 quad-core CPU, 16 GB of RAM would be an adequate start.  Didn't realize an SSD would improve performance other than super fast startups and the opening of larger files.

Looking at SO MANY PC options.  

**notable: this from a 32 year essentially exclusive Mac user   - (I did by two PC's along the way, both wound up being regrets: one w/ Windows 3.1 - nothing but frustration, another w/ Vista, oops on that; fortunately, I still had Macs during these escapades with MS's OS'

[Anonymous]

Please if you get this:

How did it all go on the 13" MB Pro with Parallels (and thanks for the tipoff that Bootcamp is buggy and not the way to go). 

I know 13" MB Pro's lack a dedicated GPU with its own RAM and since the literature from Autodesk has me "knowing" (absolutely convinced) that's an absolute must, I'm stuck looking at the two top-of-the-line MB Pro's which are the only apple laptops with dedicated GPU's.  The cheaper of which, the 2500$ one, comes to a little over $3200 once you upgrade the too small in my opinion 256 GB SSD to 512, and add Applecare ($350) - a must since their fine new "Butterfly" keyboards are known to break (and can only be factory fixed at 700$ I'm told) and sales tax (10% where I live).  A big number.  

  Therefore I'm stuck leaning heavily toward giving up my '09 MB to new MB Pro upgrade for a good PC because: 1. that's a really big $-number, but more of a reason has to be the notably undesirable keyboard I'd be stuck with;  a. its low key travel seems to have consensus that it has a bad "feel";  and b. its propensity to break(! really?  go apple).

My point is, if I could just get a regular 13" MB Pro, a price point option at a price with which I'd be comfortable, or better the "Mid-2015" 15" Pro which the still offer with its adequate and reliable keyboard, (not to mention, all the right plugs - you may know the new 15" MB Pro's sport only the very limited USB C plugs)

AND  KNOW THAT IT'D RUN Revit (again, neither has a discrete GPU) it would sure be welcome news.

So how's it go with a regular Pro?

specifically:  could you produce true perspectives, add shadows, rotate them, and render textures?

I'm desperately needing the voice of 1st hand experience.  I'd really hate to give up the Mac OS which has served me very well for a real, real long time for Windows.

Thanks much

Howard

[Anonymous]

What was the 3500$ MBP?  I was thinking it must've been one of the ones (2016 and later) w/ a dedicated GPU, ie:  the current 15" new ones, or one of the two older 15" ones that also did have a dedicated GPU at the time.

But, when you said you upped the RAM to 128GB, I know it's etiher a typo, or you're talking about the powerful Mac Pro desktop, no MB Pro can go past 16 GB officially, (there may be the ability to go to 32, based on experience where we took a 2012 13" MB Pro with an 8GB max spec to 16 readable GB of RAM.  Maybe doubling the std 16 GB RAM they come with, but not 128 as far as I know.  And the newer ones come with 16GB, but it's soldered on, so there's no ability to upgrade) 

So what Mac do you have?  And how's it doing with the resource-intensive Revit?

AutoCAD is nothing compared to Revit btw, I can run it on my 2008 MB (non-pro) Revit seems to be in quite another league, significantly so.  While I don't know all the 3-D capabilities of ACAD, I'm pretty sure it can't do a perspective (it's a 2D based drawing app, right) It can't do Shadows, it certainly may do texture, even color, but in 2D.

Bottom line:  Have you done true perspectives, shadows, and textures AND been able to rotate your model on your MBP with some of those turned on in perspective?  And without it being too jerky or slow in turning? 

Thanks much for you're reply

It's really getting confusing, both sides are contradicting one another.  

    (I've used Mac for 32 years and I might be exaggerating, but I could count the # of crashes in all that time on my fingers, maybe even on one hand, never had a virus, used to defrag in the 90's, but no more,

this part you can skip:

and for me:  ...sorry Tony, I liked your post, but  I do have an extreme fondness for "the machine"'s, aesthetics,  its feel and that whole aspect, it's a real part of the function to me.  I love wot=rking at my mac, never really felt that way about using a Windows PC; in fact, they frustrate me.  Turns out,  I'm an "artist-engineer",  i.e.:  Architect,  Although it has to work, if it doesn't look good, it ain't good, period. -I know there's a lot of trendy scarry ugly architecture going on these days, but like radio "shock Jocks", or better the cold barren 50's-Modernism and the quirky Post-modernist architecture, it'll likely be a passing thing.   Good design lasts and is wonderful to have, use and be around.   Apple products, in general, have that design appeal - and in spades.  Sorry, but people do go for quality design in clothes, their car, their furniture and their homes.  You bet there's tangible value to a super cool looking computer, - goes for their OS even moreso.)    

[Anonymous]

Very valuable post

[Anonymous]

Jens, 

what kind of iMac was the one you mention?

there's more than a couple out there;

did yours have a dedicated video card (GPU)?

[Anonymous]

Since I’m using my phone let me try a simple answer. I was using a 15 inch MacBook Pro. I believe they were not using an onboard video card. A friend in school had a 13 inch and for me that was too small to work with, I wanted more than the 15 but you work with what you have. None of that really matters though. The issue is running revit on boot camp you can but it is annoying and doesn’t really work right. If you have no other option then make it work if you can then just run revit in a pc.

[jens_lathouwers]

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017)

cpu: 4,2 GHz Intel Core i7

32 GB 2400 MHz DDR4

Radeon Pro 580 8192 MB

Those are the specs, we found out that with windows 8 on parallels the drop in performance was far less. (but windows 8 is quite a user unfriendly interface for me). So we kept on looking for another solution and found out that when you use the parallels pro version the drop in performance is less noticable. Still way slower than a good pc (for sure if you would spent 3500€ on it.) But with the parallels pro version it's not stuttering anymore. There's just a bit of a delay when moving from view to view etc.

[Anonymous]

Umm... I have a mac and like mac's very much just as you do.  However is there any advice here for being able to use Revit and other Autodesk products on mac?  I think that is what was being asked here.

[RobDraw]

Yup, it's answered more than once.