Revit LT 2013 - TRIM/MOULDING @ INTERIOR SOFFIT

[tbryanm]

I'm using REVIT LT after years of the full version. I never realized how useful and effiecient the 'modeling in place' feature was, and if AutoDesk ever decides to include it in future versions of LT I will never take it for granted as I did before.

As cumbersome as it is, I understand how wall sweeps work and how to add trim/soffits to a roof edge.

I now need to add some trim to an interior soffit. I don't have time to sit and 'trial and error' this to death, does anyone have any tips on how to accompish this, efficiently.

thanks,

[Alfredo_Medina]

Revit LT does not have model in-place, yes, but it has the power of families. You can create profiles for sweeps, for fascias, for reveals, for line-based families, for void families, etc. Anything that you could model with model in-place, you can still model it with a family in the family editor.

[Anonymous]

"Anything that you could model with model in-place, you can still model it with a family in the family editor."

That's true, but in the family editor you don't have the model itself to use as a reference and you have to bring dimensions into the family editor. Not as convenient but good enough for me. Actually better in a way.

[tbryanm]

Ok, can someone suggest which family template will except a **** profile that can then be extruded, swept..... for soffit trim. a drip edge etc ?? I have tried many and only get "Cannot Load Family Files".

Not really sure how this can actually be better??

[Alfredo_Medina]

You can use a profile into a line-based family, or into any other generic family where you want to create a sweep or swept blend solid.

Also, without the family editor, in the project, you can use a profile family for the wall sweep tool, the wall reveal tool, the fascia tool, the gutter tool, the slab edge tool...

[Anonymous]

"Not really sure how this can actually be better??"

Well for one thing, when you create an in-place family, you clutter up the project by creating all kinds of stuff like reference planes and other datums and views that you don't need after you finish the in-place family. The model can be a confusing enough, without adding all that junk and then later going in and trying to clean it all out. But in the family editor, all that stuff was never part of the project, and it goes away when you finish the family. So creating the family in the family editor is a very clean process for whole project. And for another thing, in-place families were never really what Revit is supposed to be about. Revit is about a lot of independent elements, all with parameters, coming together to create a model. When all those elements and families are independent, they can be moved in and out of the project, then system families can be moved more easily "revised instantly", (Revit). You can even take all your non-system families out of the project and start the whole project over from scratch without even spending as much time doing it as you might think. 

I had to learn to get away from in-place familes myself when I moved into Revit LT. And slowly I'm learning more and more reasons why I never wanted in-place families in the first place. But again, I'm not overlooking the fact that in-place family creation is quick and convenient because you are using the model itself as a reference, instead of lugging dimension into the family editor. So maybe sometimes you might want that in-place capability. And of course this is available in the full version of Revit.

This is all just my opinion from my own experiences, I'm not making any claims that anyone can dispute. But I would certainly welcome any differing opinions. This is a topic that MANY Revit users would like to understand more about.

[tbryanm]

And a ceiling??? T. Bryan Mulligan, AIA Principal Studio47 Architects, Inc 517 Boston Post Rd #30 Sudbury, MA 01776 t:508.500.4730 www.s47a.com >>> Sent from my iPhone

[Alfredo_Medina]

If it's a special form that cannot be done with the ceilinng tool, do it as a family, not as ceiling category, but it could be something else, such as generic models.

Revit LT users have to get good at making families to solve special conditions.

[Anonymous]

"Revit LT users have to get good at making families to solve special conditions."

That's the whole thing in a nutshell. That's what I'm still learning how to get good at. But I now believe that doing it all in the family editor has a slight edge over all, than using in-place. At least because it's cleaner.

[loboarch]

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Revit_LT wrote:

...But I now believe that doing it all in the family editor has a slight edge over all, than using in-place. At least because it's cleaner.

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Whenever there is a change in the project (move/add a wall, ANYTHING) each piece of geometry in an in-place model needs to be checked individually and parametrically against the entire project.  Typically a component family only need to be checked for position (unless it is hosted and has interaction with the host element like a void).  All the geometry of the family is only checked against itself at the time of insert.

The additional checking required for in-place models can degrade performance of a project.  it is usually not noticable until the project is very large or there are MANY in place models.  The other issue with additional checks is there is a higher possibility of causing some kind of conflict which may need to be unraveled at some point.

Over all component families are more reliable in the project.  However in-place families are much more straight forward to use because they are being made in the context of the project.   

[tbryanm]

"You can use a profile into a line-based family, or into any other generic family where you want to create a sweep or swept blend solid."

Well apparently not with my version of the software... I open the family editor w/ a line based template (Generic model and detail family). Load a profile and when I inseret I get a message 'no component family is loaded, do you want to load one?' I say yes and then click my way to the profile that I just loaded and get ' Some or all of the family files you selected cannot be loaded. You must choose family files of the category Component (or Detail Item) ....'

[tbryanm]

"The additional checking required for in-place models can degrade performance of a project.  it is usually not noticable until the project is very large or there are MANY in place models."

Which is precisely why I cannot understand why Autodesk choose to remove the feature from LT but not the full version?!? LT is not for large complex projects like the full version, go figure!

[Alfredo_Medina]

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tbryanm wrote:...

I open the family editor w/ a line based template (Generic model and detail family). Load a profile and when I inseret I get a message 'no component family is loaded, do you want to load one?' I say yes and then click my way to the profile that I just loaded and get ' Some or all of the family files you selected cannot be loaded. You must choose family files of the category Component (or Detail Item) ....'

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It does not work that way. The profile is used as the section of a sweep or swept blend solid.

[loboarch]

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@tbryanm wrote:

"You can use a profile into a line-based family, or into any other generic family where you want to create a sweep or swept blend solid."

Well apparently not with my version of the software... I open the family editor w/ a line based template (Generic model and detail family). Load a profile and when I inseret I get a message 'no component family is loaded, do you want to load one?' I say yes and then click my way to the profile that I just loaded and get ' Some or all of the family files you selected cannot be loaded. You must choose family files of the category Component (or Detail Item) ....'

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This page from the wikihlep covers how to create a sweep.  There is a video embedded into the page showing the entire process.  At about 1:20 of the video it talks specifically about loading and sketching profiles for the sweep geometry.

http://wikihelp.autodesk.com/Revit/enu/2013/Help/00001-Revit_He0/2760-Tools_an2760/2761-Sketchin2761...

[tbryanm]

Alfredo! No one said anything about doing a ceiling. If you can't read the original post then at least read the subject line. The question is about a trim/moulding @ an interior soffit.

As part of the WALL drop down you have the option of a sweep or reveal. THAT WORKS ONLY ON A WALL

As Part of the ROOF drop down you have the option of a soffit, fascia or gutter. THAT WORKS ONLY ON A ROOF

As Part of the FLOOR drop down you have the option of a slab edge. THAT WORKS ONLY ON A CONRETE SLAB

There are no options to attach anything to a soffit (made with the ceiling tool), so you have to into the family editor to create a sweep as a family and then insert into project. That is where the world goes to schit. Ok, maybe it's me, I won't rule that out. But I have been using Revit for many years, I understand how it works. I also need to be efficient and wasting time by drawing something in the family editor without being able to reference the model is not efficient. Let alone the idiosyncrasies that Revit 'can't do'

'Revit LT users have to get good at making families to solve special conditions.'

In other words LT users just have to get used to wasting time.

[Alfredo_Medina]

In post # 7 above, you asked "and a ceiling?" I thought you were asking how to make a ceiling as a model in-place if you did not have the model in-place tool. That very brief sentence does not give more information, does it?

About the rest of your comments: You need to learn how to use the family editor. The software does not have a tool in the ribbon for every one of your needs. That is why the family editor is provided.

[Anonymous]

 "I open the family editor w/ a line based template"

You need to select a "Profile Family Template" to open the family editor for those kinds of things.

"LT is not for large complex projects like the full version" ?

Only in the sense that it doesn't have worksharing, MEP or structural analysis features like the full version.

[Alfredo_Medina]

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@Anonymous wrote:

 "I open the family editor w/ a line based template"

You need to select a "Profile Family Template" to open the family editor for those kinds of things.

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No, that's not correct.

[Anonymous]

I think this is what they said:

"As Part of the ROOF drop down you have the option of a soffit, fascia or gutter."

To create different fascias for roof edges and ridges you will need to create a nested "Profile Family".

Would be interested to know if there is something not correct about this.

[Alfredo_Medina]

That sentence in this last post of yours is correct. Your interpretation of that information in your previous post is not correct.