Revit Backwards Compatibility

[bobmayflower]

Does anyone know what Autodesk plans to do about the backwards compatibility issue with Revit?  I have Revit 2012 but I have to use Revit 2011 because the software is incapable of saving back a release.  This is total craziness!  Why would anyone knowingly upgrade with this being the case?

[scott_d_davis]

There are no plans to make Revit backwards compatible.  Why would you not upgrade to 2012?  If its consultants, why would they not upgrade?  It's total craziness to NOT be using the latest release.  2013 products are coming soon...then you will be 2 releases behind. 

[bobmayflower]

Hi Scott,

That’s a very easy question to answer.  If I create a family in Revit 2011, it’s possible to use that family in Revit 2011, 2012, and so on.  If I create that same family in Revit 2013, only those who have that release can use it.  In order to stay compatible with the widest audience I have to work in an order version of the software.  Speaking for myself, I don’t know anyone working in 2012, and even if I did I would still be compatible working in 2011.  Clearly Autodesk has no clue how users really use the software.

This is a big problem!  I would like to see Revit become the standard for architectural design, but there needs to be a way to save files down a version. 

[scott_d_davis]

Revit has been around for nearly 12 years now, and in north America, is the architectural standard.  Most users are on 2012, and if you aren't, well you are nearly a year behind and its time to upgrade.  If you really need to make families that are available across multiple versions, then simply build them in an earlier version.  I used to do it all the time when I was in arcitectural practice.  Autodesk is well aware of how its customers use its products.  Through the Customer Involvement Program, we even know what commands you use most often.

What it comes down to is communication:  communicate with your project teams, including consultants, and decide collectively what versions will be used for the life of the project.  Or decide collectively when you will upgrade.  On subscription, you can use up to 3 versions of Revit.  On subscription, you have immediate access to upgrades.  There really is no good reason why anyone should continue to use an older version.  Sorry, this isn't intended to come across as harsh, but its reality.  My job puts me in front of customers every day so I have experience in this subject.

[bobmayflower]

Hi Scott,

It appears we are talking about 2 different things, maybe because I’m not being clear enough on the situation.  First off, if you read my original post, I do have the latest version of Revit.  Second, I’m talking about family creation not projects.  If I create a family in Revit 2012 it can only be used in a Revit 2012 project which is a limitation.  But if I create the same family in Revit 2011 it can be used in Revit 2011, or 2012.  I want the families I create to reach the broadest audience.  I don’t think you understand the situation I’m in.  If I’m creating families in the latest version I can’t save down a version, I have to re-create the family from scratch in an older version.  This costs me money.

[Anonymous]

This is how Autodesk forces people to buy the latest release.  Total craziness......

[scott_d_davis]

Forces you to buy?  Most likely you are on subscription so new releases are yours already.  But besides that....no pressure.  If you want to continue using older versions with less performance and less functionality, thats your choice.

[LisaDrago]

A side thought... If you are on subscription with Autodesk - you do get previous version use. Since you have 2012 you can use 2011, 2010 and 2009. So if you needed to start your familyson 2009 and then use them in any version after.

For project work - it is a best practice I discuss with cllients that what ever version you start a project in - you finish it that same version. This avoids any issues with team members/consultants not wanting or having the finances to upgrade the software.

just my $0.02

LD

[rosskirby]

My guess is that the OP represents a manufacturer of some sort, and is not actually in the architectural profession, so telling him to coordinate with the project team prior to starting probably isn't going to get him very far.  However, if you look at most of the manufacturer's out there, they tend to release their families in only the latest release, or at most, the current release and one prior release.  Since a vast majority of Revit users upgrade with each new release, having to provide content in prior releases just shouldn't be that much of an issue.  

Personally, I'd rather have every manufacturer's family in the latest release; that way I don't have to sit through the "upgrading family" whenever I load it the first time.

My advice to the OP: build your families in the current release.  Upgrade your entire library of families with each new release, but keep a copy of the older versions for at least 2 releases, in the event that some functionality is lost from one release to another (e.g. family painting parameter disappearing between 2011 and 2012).

[bobmayflower]

Your guess is pretty close.  I work with foodservice equipment manufacturers and commercial kitchen designers.  No one I work with uses Revit 2012.  I have a subscription as well as the latest version of Revit.  I created this post mainly to see if Autodesk has any intension to allow a user to save a Revit family back a revision or two.  According to Autodesk Scott, the answer is simply no.

I very much want to work in the latest version of Revit, but I cannot simply because the software does not have the capability of saving to a previous version.  Because of that limitation I’m forced to do all my work in an older version.

In my opinion, bottom line, if Revit could save families back a release or two it would give kitchen designers a reason to upgrade.  I also think it might give kitchen designers using AutoCAD incentive to try Revit.  If I were Autodesk I would listen to my customers, look for every opportunity, and not be so dismissive. 

[scott_d_davis]

So lets work together to get those that you work with onto the latest release.  Thats part of what I do.  You can contact me through Private Message here on the forums and we can start dialog on what might be the best way to get those that you work with out of the past and into the latest release...which may just be 2013 by the time we get this going.  We are here to help you.  We do listen to our customers.  But the best path is to move forward...not backwards.  By the way, I assume you are in North America?

[rosskirby]

I understand your frustration, but Revit is not built in a way that would make backwards compatibility practical.  As a workaround, since all you're working with are families, and not entire projects, you should be able to export your files to either IFC or .dwg and re-import into a previous version, if it's really that important to you.  My guess is that anyone who would want to use your kitchen equipment families (i.e. architects, MEP engineers), and who is also using Revit, is using the latest version, or at least one release prior to the latest version.

If the most current version is 2012, you should probably be building your families in 2011, then upgrading them to 2012, and make both versions available.  Very few, if any, companies using Revit are still working in 2010 (or earlier versions).  As a pure family-maker (and not project file maker), you won't see as many benefits in each new release as those of us who use the program to develop entire projects.

Hope that helps.

[loboarch]

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rosskirby wrote:

 As a pure family-maker (and not project file maker), you won't see as many benefits in each new release as those of us who use the program to develop entire projects.

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I think this comment is accurate.  If you are authoring content and NOT creating buildings, there is very little difference in the family editor from 2011 and 2012.  I can't think of ANY enhancements that significantly impacted the family editor from 2011 to 2012.  If you are working on only content you will not see any benifit authoring you content in 2011 rather then 2012.  I would author your content in 2011 and provide those files to your customers, and then I would upgrade all of the files and also provide the content in 2012 format for your customers.

Autodesk SUPPORTS use of software 3 versions back so to be completly safe you might want to provide 3 release year versions of your content.  If a user is further back than 3 years on software understand they are NOT supported by Autodesk so I would suspect the number of customers you might have in this situation is fairly small.

I do undstand the request to support backward compatibility of files but this iis not somthing that has been supported in the history of Revit.  This is something the user must understand when making the decision to work on the Revit platform.  If backwards compatibility is important in your work, you may want to look into another software solution until (if ever) this situation changes for Revit.

[bobmayflower]

Hi Scott,

Is there a utility that would automate that process?  Or does it have to be done manually? 

[bobmayflower · Accepted solution]

Hi Jeff,

I appreciate everyone’s comments.  From my perspective it seems that there is a huge opportunity for future versions of Revit in the area of specialty equipment.  Only in the past few years has Revit even come on the radar of foodservice equipment manufacturers, (keep in mind this is AutoCAD, Inventor, Pro-E, and SolidWorks territory not Architectural). 

My advice to Autodesk:

I would look at the possibility of creating either a more robust family editor, or maybe even a hybrid product that’s a cross between Inventor and Revit.

Look at the size of the foodservice industry alone, the number of companies involved, and you may agree that there’s an opportunity here.  On the kitchen design side there are still a large majority using 2D AutoCAD.  Look for ways to tear down the barriers that keep users out of latest version Revit.  I hope you will find some of this helpful. 

[rosskirby]

Just out of curiosity, what kind of features would you be looking for in the family editor that aren't already there?  Better modeling, easier parameters, etc.?

[bobmayflower]

I’ll talk to some of the other people I work with, and put together a wish list.

[loboarch]

If you get your list together you can submit it here:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=1109794

This feedback goes to the Revit team and is logged as whishlist items.  These items are considered as Revit is developed.  Feedback sent in via this form is more "official" than posting a wishlist here and will be seen by the people making decisions for future development.

[Anonymous]

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@scott_d_davis wrote:

There are no plans to make Revit backwards compatible.  Why would you not upgrade to 2012?  If its consultants, why would they not upgrade?  It's total craziness to NOT be using the latest release.  2013 products are coming soon...then you will be 2 releases behind. 

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In 15 years of dealing with Autodesk, this is the typical response i have received. It isn't the fault of Revit that it can't export to older versions, it's "your fault" and "your consultants" fault for not having the latest software. This is a NON-ANSWER.  It is insulting to their own customers.  It is unprofessional.  The working world can not always demand their consultants purchase (or upgrade) software.  Often, the client requires particular format restrictions.  I have been told by Autodesk to have my client upgrade their software.  The client is NOT directed by the consultants.

Autodesk needs to train their staff that this is NEVER an appropriate answer.  A software company does not TELL an architect to upgrade, nor does it TELL a client/consultant/end-user to upgrade if they want to use their product.  If the software is unable to meet the request (i.e. backwards compatibility, etc) then answer the question as such.  Offer possible solutions (i.e. building families in earliest version and upgrade them to the appropriate version as needed).  But to make fiscal decisions for third-parties is the height of arrogance.

This is one (of the MANY) reasons why my company will not (ever) use Revit.  For BIM, I would rather face the unfamiliar terrain of Bentley (or any other software) before I used Revit.

IMHO - My $0.02

[Anonymous]

Here, here.. but Autodesk has heard this all before, a thousand times, and they clearly don't care. Autodesk is a publicly owned company with a lot of mouths to feed and as such it's primary allegiance seems to be to Wall Street - therefore the only thing that will ever get their attention is if everyone stops upgrading, which is unlikely. They have a business model that is profitable and unitl it isn't profitable anymore, nothing is going to change.