Revit 2023 - Mass models to energy models problems

[dcni]

What have happen in Revit 2023. Not possible to create a energy model only based on Mass'es only. I have been teaching students to use mass for simple area calculations with energy models based only on mass'es and not a combination between mass and detailed objects. The results is a no-working energy model! 

Seems like the functionallity is removed!?

Images below from Revit 2023

2023202320232023

Images from Revit 2020, where things works fine, and have done it for the last 12 years!

2020202020202020

[barthbradley]

Read "Removed the Use Conceptual Masses mode in the Energy Settings dialog" under "Energy Model" in following: 

https://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2023/ENU/?guid=RevitReleaseNotes_2023release_Enhancements_html

Get this: Our Autodesk Reseller actually suggested it might be an "oversight" by Autodesk and that it would probably be resolved in the next release.  Say what???  What about people that need Mass Exterior Walls in 2023 supposed to do???

That was several weeks ago. Still haven't heard back from him, but I'm really curious to know what users that do need them are supposed to do.   Wait?  Use 2022?  WTF??? 

[dcni]

Any good work arounds? 

[barthbradley]

We haven't needed the tool. We have yet to use 2023 in production, so we haven't needed a "workaround". That's pretty much our workaround in general. Don't use the newest version until all the bugs get discovered and fixed.  Typically, that's over a year - or longer - or never, as the case seems to be here.    

[dcni]

Hallo Autodesk, is it possible to get a answer from someone from Autodesk, maybe the product developer tema? 

[tetsuya.hishida]

Hi  daniel
I saw your screenshot, but I see the EAM model created.
I think you are referring to two things.

1. Why is the Energy model created from the Mass model looking zig-zag in Revit?
2. Why don't I see the Mass model option in the Energy Setting?

Is my assumption correct?

[dcni]

Hi

1) In rvt23 there is not the options to only create eam model based on a mass. I assume that the zig-zag eam model is created because of another method.

2) I think the general problem is that, you cannot chose only eam based on mass. In rvt23 it is created based on mass AND detailed object model.

/daniel

[RIPENG]

The zig-zag eam model occurs because Perimeter Zone Division energy option is enabled. If Perimeter Zone Division is disabled the zig-zag should not occur.

Basically, Perimeter Zone Division is Revit's automated method of zoning a single large volume. When a single zone eam model is desired Perimeter Zone Division should be disabled.

-Jake

[RIPENG]

Revit offers 4 modes for creating the energy analytical model from the architectural model. Apparently not.

2023 API shows MassGBXMLExport as deprecated but not yet removed. R23 GUI is trashed but functionality may still be available through the API backdoor. Vendor should be all over it to hook a brother up :). I've dropped anchor on R21 so I can't offer further assistance.

Not too relevant here but the fall back, 'Use Conceptual Masses and Building Elements,' is known to produce unexpected Analytical Space results under certain conditions.

-Jake