Restore .fbx export function?

Anonymous · ‎10-15-2021

Dear Autodesk,

Could you please let me know if Autodesk would consider restoring the .fbx export function from Revit?

I did ask this same question a couple of years ago and the answer was to either: purchase FULL REVIT as opposed to REVIT LT, or to purchase 3DMax (as a very expensive file converter). I am already aware that Lumion and D5 Render plug-ins within FULL REVIT work well. Therefore, could you please not suggest this as a solution again. I am asking again in the hope that I may get a more constructive answer from someone else this time around.

I used my perpetual FULL REVIT 2010 license for many years and had no issues exporting to .fbx (with all materials recognised) and importing into LUMION. I was extremely happy with the workflow.

I am now using REVIT LT (from 2019) and cannot export files via .fbx as all of the materials are missing. I have tested REVIT LT 2022 and an educational version of FULL REVIT 2022 and have discovered no improvement.

Ideally, I would like to be able to export .fbx files from REVIT LT (with materials recognised), so that I can import them into LUMION and D5 render. I have tested every kind of alternative export option available, but have not found a good solution. Every other type of file export is problematic for one reason or another. The closest solution would be to either export as:

1. a .dwg file set to 'ACIS Solids' (to allow for smooth curves, however composite walls become one element with one material which is terrible. Exporting as a .dwg 'Polymesh' will split a composite wall into different materials, but all smooth objects like 'cornices' will be segmented which is unacceptable for rendering purposes.). The biggest issue with exporting as a .dwg file, is that the heirarchy of material/family names (eg: WALLS - Exterior-1) will change when a new family element is introduced within the Revit File. Materials in LUMION will shuffle around and have to be re-applied when the Revit model (via .dwg) is refreshed.

2. Exporting REVIT LT as .IFC and converting it into an .fbx file appeared to be the best solution as materials and smooth curves are maintained. (however composite walls are still exported as one element with one material). I thought this was the best solution until I did a 'House Swap test' within LUMION (which is very important for workflow as we don't want to reapply materials every time we want to present an alternative design for the same project). I discovered that the 'House Swap test' failed because numbers were added to the beginning of all material names. For example: For Project 1, '_WALL - Brick', changed to '8083__WALL - Brick'; and for Project 2, '_WALL - Brick' became '10451__WALL - Brick'. Could you please let me know if there is any way to export Revit as an .IFC file while maintaining the original material names. ie: export as an .ifc without the numbers added to the beginning of each material?

I have attached 2 short videos of the 'House Swap test' so that you can see how material names remain unchanged for a .dwg export, but are altered (numbers added) when exported as an .IFC file.

In short, will Autodesk consider restoring .fbx export function? If not, could you please let me know if there is any way to export as an .IFC file without numbers added to material names?

With kind regards,

Leah

Anonymous · ‎10-17-2021

Hi Rob,

Apologies. I did not see your 2 responses regarding Revit LT and Formit. I can see that you are making quite an effort to help me.

I will read through them now and try to replicate what you have done.

With kind regards,

Leah

Anonymous · ‎10-17-2021

Hi Rob,

Now we are getting somewhere. Fantastic.

I have read through your last 2 responses and am getting excited about finding a result.

By the way, it doesn't matter if the Revit materials and colours don't appear in .fbx. I was used to seeing it all grey or all white. What matters, is that Lumion or D5 Render recognise the material names and those material names remain consistent from project to project.

I am now sorry I hoped for a new mentor. I am excited to replicate what you have done and will get back to you on the results.

Cheers,

Leah

Anonymous · ‎10-18-2021

Hi Rob,

So So Close....

I was excited about the FORMIT route as it is not important that material textures and colours are transferred over. A white or grey model would be fine as long as material names were recognised. Unfortunately I still cannot see how to get Revit LT into FORMIT via the 'Site' tab (as mentioned in one of your last posts). I have attached a screenshot of the 'Site' tab to show you what it looks like. Perhaps there is another way for Revit LT to reach FORMIT?

Converting the .fbx 2015 to an older version (I tried each variation for 2009, 2010, 2013 and to .dae) was a really good idea and it almost worked. Materials were recognised in Lumion, but unfortunately Windows and Doors came in as whole 'Assemblies'. Unfortunately I no longer have Revit 2010 installed on my computer and cannot re-install it as Autodesk will not issue an Authentication Code (I have already tried). I therefore cannot replicate the way I previously worked so that I could show you.

For now, I need a break from this. I have asked for help to write a Dynamo script (as unfortunately I don't know how to use Dynamo) that will remove the numbers from the beginning of material names when exporting as an .ifc file.

I hope that I get some success following that route.

Once you have replied again, I will hit the 'Solved' button to relieve you of me.

With kind regards,

Leah

RDAOU · ‎10-18-2021

@Anonymous

that post with all those images came from @lucdoucet_msdl who walked an extra mile to create these snap shots...although he mixed up a bit between Revit LT and Revit Full version... LT doesn't have a massing and site.

Personally all I can say is that Revit LT exports FBX and it works fine with Lumion and it works with/via Formit as a workaround. I am not sure what you are doing at your end or how you are doing it but from my end, I am sorry to say I cannot help

Anonymous · ‎10-19-2021

Hi Rob,

I was looking forward to pressing the Accept Solution button, but unfortunately I could not leave the post the way it was. I don't want fellow Revit LT users to be left with confusing information.

In order to help you understand a bit better, I have created 2 short videos. I have added the videos to an old Youtube channel temporarily so that you can access the videos (they were too big to attach).

- Video 1 demonstrates how a simple 'out of the box' wall, door and window is exported as an .fbx file.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTJCPGfj4d0

- Video 2 demonstrates how the .fbx export function has been altered sometime after 2010.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NwpvGAEjqI

I would love to move forward and find a solution for myself and for fellow Revit LT users.

Ideally, it would be wonderful if the .fbx export was restored (with the added option to smooth curves).

Currently, the nearest solution is to export as an .ifc and convert it to .fbx using Simlab Composer. There are still hurdles to jump over with this option, as material names are not consistent from project to project (different numbers are added to the beginning of material names for each project), meaning that it fails the 'House Swap Test'. This is very important for architectural workflow. The other problem with .ifc is that different materials on either side of a composite wall are not recognised. Exterior walls (eg brick) and Interior walls (eg stud timber with plasterboard) will have to be placed separately. This causes a domino effect as Window and Door families have to be altered to include a 'Wall Thickness' parameter. The Wall Opening tool will have to be employed for the exterior or interior wall that does not house the door or window family. It is a lot of work just because there has been a change to the .fbx export function.

I have opened an Autodesk case and hope to get some answers from Riya, therefore it is not necessary to continue this thread with you.

I wish to thank you very much for your efforts.

With kind regards,

Leah

semhustej · ‎10-19-2021

Hi Leah,

I tested my Revit LT 2022.1 fbx export to TwinMotion (smiliar to Lumion) and I am able to apply TwinMotion materials to objects according to how they were setup in Revit. No problem with applying different material to the other side of wall or window pane only. I have no access to Lumion though.

Tom

semhustej · ‎10-19-2021

With regards of FormIt exporter in Revit LT 2022.1. In my experience there is none and never was, even though on Autodesk product pages you can read otherwise. With the release of LT 2022 I filed as support request and I got reply with already mentioned link:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/article/Option-to-use-FormIt-Interoperability-is-missing-in-Revit-LT-...

In the link, the author writes "As per the product support page option to use the FormIt Interoperability should be present." This tells me the author didn't check whether Interoperability is there, he/she just read the product pages. I didn't file a request because I am a bit fed up - why should I file support request twice for one problem.

I think Autodesk has been misleading users with Revit LT - FormIt interopoerability for long time. There has never been such Add-in available for Revit LT in my experience. I don't think it's malice on Autodesk's part, I think it's only chaos on their part.

Tom

RDAOU · ‎10-19-2021

@Anonymous

The issue is the FBX format compatibility (not everything before 2015 works in Lumion hence the Lumion LiveSync was developed). To work around that do the following:

Open the .FBX exported from Revit 2019 or 2022 in Formit
Export from Formit as FBX version FBX200608 or FBX201000
Check the option ACIS and Create Back Faces
Results will be almost identical to an export using Lumion LiveSync

See below video using Revit LT Sample ... results should be very similar to an export via Lumion LiveSync

semhustej · ‎10-19-2021

@RDAOU

as far as I know Revit LT users have only access to web version of FormIT. This version doesn't import or export .fbx files.

Desktop version of FormIT is part of AEC collection, it cannot be purchased independently - so it's basically unavalable to Revit LT users.

Tom

Anonymous · ‎10-19-2021

Hi Tom,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I am from Australia so our day / night times don't match up. I also work during the day.

Re: Twinmotion - You are absolutely right. Thank you so much for pointing this out.

I have a lifetime license for Twinmotion, but use Lumion. One wonderful thing about Twinmotion is that the .fbx model works fine even when selecting the 'Collapse All' option when importing.

For those who are not familiar with 'Collapse All', it just means that your model will import as one whole object (great), instead of being imported / split into many different elements (which I absolutely detest).

I checked to see if I could use Twinmotion as an .fbx converter, but unfortunately I cannot export the .fbx file back out of Twinmotion. Even if I could, it wouldn't help fellow Revit LT users that don't have Twinmotion at their fingertips.

What I found interesting though (via this article:

https://twinmotionhelp.epicgames.com/s/question/0D52L00003mmEVgSAM/is-there-a-way-to-export-a-file-f...),

is that you could import and export back out of Unreal Engine 4 or now 5. UE4 & 5 are absolutely FREE. This could be our FREE .fbx converter.

Before I got too excited, I did test it out by importing the Revit 2022 .fbx (House model) into UE4. I hit the 'Collapse All' button (believing it to be the same as Twinmotion). It came into UE4 just fine. I exported it back out as an .fbx and brought it into Lumion. Unfortunately the attached image will show you what my original house (same one as in my Videos) looked like after the process.

Even though the model was messed up, there is still promise. Perhaps I did something wrong with the UE4 .fbx Import and Export? If there is anyone out there that can make this work, please let us know.

Also...even though we have not found the perfect solution for this yet, it does demonstrate that it is possible for a third party rendering program to read an .fbx from the latest Revit version. I can now ask Lumion and D5 Render to please find out why Twinmotion can read the file properly, but their software cannot.

Before I go, I just wanted to mention that even if the Revit export function was restored to the original (c.2010), we still have issues regarding smooth curves. This is why I am also asking about .ifc export (without numbers added to material names). I have to be careful that the alternative option of .ifc export doesn't get overshadowed by the .fbx issues.

With many thanks,

Leah

Anonymous · ‎10-19-2021

Hi again Tom,

I am also dubious about the whole Revit LT to FROMIT 'add-in'.

I tested Formit (Free Web Version) and discovered that I cannot import a .rvt or .fbx file. Please see screenshot attached which shows all of the 'Customised Files' available. There are a couple of .rvt and .fbx files in that folder but Formit is not recognising them.

I feel your frustration and don't blame you for getting fed up and giving up. I asked my same question ages ago and got nowhere. I previously gave up because it is all too time consuming, especially when you work and have a family.

I'm just being more persistent now because I would really like to work with D5 Render (it is unable to import a .dwg), and I am so sick of importing as a .dwg (for Lumion, which I have had to put up with since I upgraded Revit). .dwg export is absolutely terrible for many reasons which I won't go through now.

Anyway, I hope we get somewhere this time around.

Cheers,

Leah

Anonymous · ‎10-19-2021

Hi Rob and Tom,

Hi Rob,

Thank you, Yes...I watched your video and it appears to work which is great, but what I find confusing is...

Why would you suggest an option that costs over $3000/year (please find screenshot of pricing from the Autodesk website)? when a simpler solution would be to just upgrade Revit LT to FULL Revit for less than that? It doesn't make any sense, unless there is a different page of pricing for Formit Pro on it's own?

Please let me know if I have missed a different pricing page?

Cheers,

Leah

semhustej · ‎10-20-2021

@Anonymous

If you need a software for FBX re-saving, I advise you to check Blender. It's free open source software - equivalent to 3DS Max. It has fbx import and export. I would give this a shot before trying to troubleshoot unreal engine. The installation process is fast and easy compared to Ureal or Autodesk products.

https://www.blender.org/

Tom

Anonymous · ‎10-20-2021

Hi Tom,

Yes, you are correct again. I did think of that and downloaded Blender to try it out. I am not familiar with Blender at all and so was a bit lost with it and didn't get very far. It was one of my earlier ideas and I dismissed it because I thought it was too much of a work-around every time I want to export out of Revit LT and import into Lumion or D5 Render.

My idea of using UE4 as a converter would be just as cumbersome as using Blender as a converter, so I will certainly test the Blender option again.

If the FREE Converter idea works with both UE4 and Blender, Revit LT users could choose which software they felt more comfortable with.

Since my last post, I have downloaded the most up to date version of UE4, and investigated .fbx export. See link below:

https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.27/en-US/WorkingWithContent/Importing/FBX/FullScene/

I haven't been able to test it again yet, and I have a lot more ideas re: .ifc and .dwg exports. I would like to test my ideas once I am free with work.

The staff at D5 Render have also been extremely helpful with this issue. I need to also test some of their ideas: ie

'...you simply need to do the following to preserve the materials when replacing the project.

Option 1: use transfer project standards command found in the manage tab, and transfer the materials, this will ensure you transfer the material along with it’s asset to the other project, therefor ensuring the same name applied in D5, therefor ensuring D5 still remembers your custom material applied even if the name is gone by replacing the material in D5 with a custom one.

I’ll open an internal discussion regarding the reveal of the original source material name coming from the original software for a better experience and understanding of this, but for now, that’s how the concept works.

Option 2: you may also use the option : use consistent colors in settings, this will refer the RGB being taken from the material graphics rather than ASSET’s color or texture.
This is probably easier for you to manage between projects without the need to transfer the whole materials using transfer project standards command.'

I will let you know what I discover once I have had a chance to test again over the weekend.

With many thanks and kindest regards,

Leah

RDAOU · ‎10-20-2021

@Anonymous wrote:

Why would you suggest an option that costs over $3000/year (please find screenshot of pricing from the Autodesk website)? when a simpler solution would be to just upgrade Revit LT to FULL Revit for less than that? It doesn't make any sense, unless there is a different page of pricing for Formit Pro on it's own?

Cheers,
Leah

@Anonymous @semhustej

🙂 did I previously mention that there is something which isn't right about this post ?...

I suggested that because in your Original Post and later on through the discussion you reiterated that you have been testing the Full Revit 2022 Educational license... If you are eligible for an educational license, Formit Pro is one of the software which you can get from the Education Community.

Now the question is...if you are eligible for an educational license why would you pay for what Autodesk offers students and educators for free?

Anonymous · ‎10-21-2021

Dear Rob,

I have no idea why you would think ‘…there is something shady about this post’, and I find your comment extremely offensive.

Perhaps you should concentrate more on actually helping customers with constructive advice rather than keep suggesting that they purchase more expensive Autodesk software.

Your insinuation that I could be using Educational software for commercial use is ridiculous. For a start, if I was using an Educational version of Full Revit, I wouldn’t even bother with this post in order to find a solution for Revit LT. I would have just kept quiet and used the educational version.

Secondly, if you had been paying any attention to my posts and/or watched my videos, you would have noticed that I used my perpetual Full Revit 2010 version as late as May 2020. I began an AutoCAD LT / Revit LT subscription in the beginning of this year so that I could work with the software commercially.

I have attached a link to my linked-in page

https://au.linkedin.com/in/leah-shelley-94140216a

so that you can see that I was a lecturer and tutor at the University of Canberra for many years. Unfortunately I ceased work at the University at the beginning of 2020 due to being diagnosed with cancer (which I am still battling – Happy to provide you with medical records if you think there is something ‘shady’ about that too). I began working part time at the beginning of this year using Revit LT (not sneaking an educational version of FULL REVIT). A University of Canberra employee kindly allowed me to test the latest Educational version.

This isn’t the first time you have been offensive as I was also upset by your previous comment ‘…you can simply do it yourself! Unless your were not really looking for a solution the first place’

Please stop the witch hunt and try to be more constructive.

I was continuing this post as I wanted to share my ideas with fellow Revit LT users like Tom. I have a lot of other ideas to put forward that may help others. In other words, I didn’t continue this post in order to seek help from you as I realised early on that you were incapable of doing so. You have proven to provide unconstructive advice bundled up with offensive comments so it would be greatly appreciated if you would allow Revit LT users to help each-other without upset. It seems the rod of pride has not been kind to you.

Anonymous · ‎10-21-2021

Hi Tom and fellow Revit LT users,

This will be my last post (I hope you understand that I am pretty well fed-up with Autodesk help by now), so I hope that you will find this useful.

So far, I have found that the best way to export Revit LT to use in Lumion and D5 Render is to export as an ifc file and convert it into an fbx file.

ifc files seem to be the best so far as it allows smooth curves (set ‘Level of Detail’ to ‘High’. Direct export to fbx does not allow a choice for ‘Level of Detail’) and the material names are also transferred. This is much better than a .dwg export (‘Polymesh’ or ‘ACIS Solids’) as you will have a never-ending issue with the hierarchy of material / family names shuffling around within Lumion or D5 Render.

Note: The above solution still has an issue that materials on either side of a composite wall are not recognised. I am therefore going to model internal and external skins separately for now until something improves. I do realise the hassle of placing doors and windows but have a workaround.

So….what is the best way to convert an .ifc into an .fbx? Well, that’s more tricky than I expected.

I was converting .ifc files into .fbx files using Simlab Composer 9, but discovered that numbers were added to the beginning of material names. This caused the ‘House Swap Test’ to fail and therefore there would be continuous workflow problems within both Lumion and D5 Render.

I assumed all converters gave you the same result. I was so surprised to discover that each converter will give you a different result.

I came to the conclusion that using a ‘middle-man’ software program like Blender, UE4 or even 3DRhino would be disruptive to an efficient workflow. A simple converter would be more efficient.

So I tested the following…..

Filestar – FREE from https://filestar.com/download/

It isn’t the best because it is FREE. I like it the best because it is quick, simple and best of all, material names come out clean (no numbers or any other info added to the material names meaning they would be consistent from project to project). Just a warning…composite walls are still a problem.

I also tested the following but found issues with them.

Cadexchanger – Too fancy and Revit material names were not recognised.
3D-Convert.com – Could not recognise Revit .ifc files so I couldn’t even test it.
Automapki – Too fancy. Numbers and additional info were added to material names.
Datakit – Cross Manager. ???? Still hopeful. I have asked ‘Central Innovation’ for a trial version.
Aspose – IFC to OBJ. Most of the model was missing. The house looked like a construction site.
NCH Software – IFC to OBJ. Model was mirrored and there were no materials.

Other conversions could still be tested, eg:

For LUMION, .ifc to .skp or .dae might work better???

For D5 RENDER, .ifc to Rhino .3dm might work better???.

The combo seems endless and overwhelming, which is why I will ask ‘Building Smart’ (developer of .ifc) which option they would recommend. If you are interested in the answer, check out the ‘Building Smart’ forum https://forums.buildingsmart.org/ in about a week or so.

Some D5 Render users have already asked D5 Render to consider introducing a model ‘hierarchy’ system similar to Twinmotion (we already know Twinmotion can read .fbx well because of this. Remember… a direct .fbx export from Revit will not ask for the ‘Level of Detail’ so close ups of round objects will look terrible). I am sure D5 developers will listen to their customers.

I would have liked to have helped Revit LT users further, but the kind of feedback I am getting is tiring.

I wish all Revit LT users the best in the quest to use Revit LT with 3rd party rendering software programs. I hope you find a successful solution.

With best wishes and kindest regards,

Leah

semhustej · ‎10-21-2021

Leah,

thanks for sharing your research. It is much appreciated. I too have been recently testing Revit LT to visualization workflow. Twinmotion workflow seems best to me, but it's quite a lot of work to get good quality output from Twinmotion. I heard about D5 render for first time here, I have to test it.

I agree that using a middle-man software is a workflow killer. At first it might seem innocent enough, but in real practice it usually causes problems and slowdown of the workflow.

Best regards,

Tom

Anonymous · ‎10-25-2021

Hi Tom and fellow Revit LT users,

Thank you Tom. I hope my research helps others. I am still testing / converting different file types to find a better solution.

I have some wonderful news, which is why I am posting.

A received a phone call from Riya (Autodesk Help), who assured me that the issues of exporting from Revit LT (ie: being able to export a file with both 'smooth curves' and 'materials recognised on either side of a composite element') is firstly, acknowledged and secondly, will be investigated to find a solution.

Dear Riya,

Thank you so much for listening and restoring my faith is Autodesk's customer service.

I an excited to see improvements to Revit LT's export options for future releases.

With many thanks and kindest regards,

Leah

semhustej · ‎10-26-2021

Leah,

that's good news. Thanks updating us and also for pushing Revit development forward.

Best regards,

Tom