R2020 Room Inverting

[Nmeyers2QXCF]

Hi, we have upgraded a file from R19 to R20. One portion of the model is now "inverting rooms" See screenshots. the room center is within bounding walls, the room object infill however will only appear outside of those walls.... I have tried everything I know of to fix this. Has anyone seen this issue?

Thanks!

[ennujozlagam]

have you try to tick the room bounding of those walls?. thanks

[Nmeyers2QXCF]

Hi, thank you for responding. I have tried toggling that bounding on/off, copied walls, created new walls. Always the same result. The walls are bounding, just bounding the room on the wrong side of the wall. The room center is on one side, and the room fill is on the other side of the wall. Very bizarre. 

[ennujozlagam]

have you try to put a room separator? thanks

[ennujozlagam]

is there anyway you can share the file so we can check? thanks

[Nmeyers2QXCF]

Hi, I have and room separator lines have the same effect. The room center is within the lines but the room infill is on the other side of the separator lines... 

Thanks!

[ToanDN]

Can you share the file?

[Nmeyers2QXCF]

Hi,

I am not able to share this file. We have not found a solution yet. 

[martijn_pater]

Perhaps you could try to adjust the file to illustrate the issue in a generic manner/plan layout? If you remove all unnescessary information not related to the issue.

[RDAOU]

@Nmeyers2QXCF 

Can you share a section view (with rooms on) cutting through the elevator shaft?

From how it looks like, it appears that either you have a bleeding gap in the bounding element and/or an issue with the Limit and base offsets …

Also check the computational height of the level those rooms are hosted on (it could be that the room in the shaft is reading the level below)

[Nmeyers2QXCF]

Thanks for the input. A section image is below, the hosting level is red. Computation height is standard 3'-0".

The issue persists even with walls with no base offset, brand new rooms, adding room separation lines, only room separation lines, copied rooms, different walls types with or without finish layers...

I have discovered that changing the "room area computation" from "At wall finish" to "At wall center" fixes the issue. Even more evidence that this "donut room" is a bug related problem. 

Which is it has to be because I don't believe there is ever a condition in Revit in which the center of a room can be on another side of a bounding element, or the center of the room is the only part not included in the room area.

R2021! everything will be fixed

[ToanDN · Accepted solution]

What if you add a separation line at the blue location below?

And can you show a 2d section with the room interior fill and room location line turned on?

[RDAOU]

@Nmeyers2QXCF 

That section doesn't show room reference and interior fill through the elevator shaft...

anyhow; if you look closely at your layout, the two shades of Blue on your the plan indicate that there are two enclosed rooms. this is usually caused when one has an issue with the rooms limit/base offsets and a bleeding boundary between the two floors. You should be able to confirm this by tagging/naming and scheduling the rooms vs the section.

Is it happening in any other location of just the elevator shaft?

[Nmeyers2QXCF · Accepted solution]

In section it is even stranger. I have selected the room that should be inside the shaft. In plan, the room center is in the shaft. In section it shows offset and if I move the center in the section view it does not graphically move in section view, but does move in the plan view...

This is persisent with any limit offset. However, it is not the case if the room is hosted on another level. 

But same result as the plan images. Walls are bounding, just donut style with room outside...

I did find a fix! Create a room seperation line so the room is not a donut around another bounding room...

see image attached. Thanks all!

[ToanDN · Accepted solution]

That is what I suggested in post #12.

[Nmeyers2QXCF]

So you did!

I must have missed that image or jumped to latest post.

You were right!

Thanks!

[RDAOU]

@Nmeyers2QXCF 

 overlapping rooms is also obvious in the section view. 

The issue is not the donut shaped space...having an elevator shaft in the middle of an open space is not unusual and it doesn't create any issues … the issue you have is with the offsets and bleeding boundaries. Either use Space instead of rooms OR if you have a mechanical who knows how to use Revit, ask his to setout the spaces then redefine your room offsets according to his.

Anyhow is that line sorted things out for you, then issue is closed 🙂

cheers

[Nmeyers2QXCF]

Thank you for your input. 

The issue is with donut room. Something occured when this file was upgraded and this level in this phase started  (was not previously occuring in R19) creating "donut rooms". Doesn't happen on other levels, or in the exact same location in other phases. Adding a line to turn a "o" shape room into a "c" shape room should have no impact on the shaft room, yet it does. Not to mention the section always shows the center in the wrong place, this is not nomral room behaviour. It was repeatedable with new rooms, new walls, anywhere on that particular level. There is no situation where you have room seperation lines with a room object bounding within, then move it inside another room and suddenly it donuts... 

The "room center" in section should not show up in different places on different views. Look at the original plan images to see the same issue occuring with brand new test rooms in adjacent rooms. I am only posting this in case it makes it to some autodesk bug report.

[RDAOU]

If you say so...

As stated above...if you are satisfied with a room separator, then so be it 🙂 your MEP consultant is most probably going to disregard those rooms and use spaces anyway so you do not need to spend more time figuring what is causing the issue