Project base point clip removed in revit 2020.2

[Anonymous]

HI Team,

In Previous versions 2020.1, Project Base point clipping is enable and can be disabled. But in Revit 2020.2, the clip of the Project base point is not available.

The over all project can be moved to location with help of Project base point. But now it doesn't appear and there is no connection between the grids and Project base point.

Please answer if any purpose this is done. And Please explain.

Attached image for reference.

Thanks,

Pandiraj.AV

[C&C_Administrador]

I think this was a terrible mistake, because it´s change all how can we works the project in real UTM coordinates, the project Base Point makes more easily to work project in the same spot when you link several files.

I'm a little bit upset that you said that this PBP doesn't have a reason to exist, I think you don't know to much about linked models using shared coordinates in big projects and linked with PBP in projects.

[SteveKStafford]

You're misquoting and misunderstanding me. What specific task can you not accomplish today that you could in the past? As for experience...well you don't know much about me then.

[LPA-ID-ALopez]

lol. Steve Stafford doesn't have experience linking large projects? lol

This must be an April fool's joke! lol

If you know anyone with more experience than Steve, I'd like to meet him.

[Anonymous]

"Re: Project base point clip removed in revit 2020.2
lol. Steve Stafford doesn't have experience linking large projects? lol
This must be an April fool's joke! lol
If you know anyone with more experience than Steve, I'd like to meet him."

Add tags HI...I'm Mic. L 

[pedro.martinezruda]

Same issue here. I'm not able to see the clip in Revit 2020.02.01 (20.2.20.31). 

Frustrating as it is impossible to manage project location properly. 

[pedro.martinezruda]

Relocate project doesn't offer an imput dialog on screen as it offered the paperclip. 

[SteveKStafford]

If you want to enter specific coordinates use Specify Coordinates at Point and select the Project Base Point "point/node".

[Anonymous]

Is not irrelevant, in Revit 2021 if you try to modify the elevation of the project with the PBP  now you can´t, for example I try to move my project up to 2800 meters over the survey point, the model stay in the same place and the PBP desapear because of the view range. Now I don't know how to change the elevation of the whole project and to use spot elevation in relation to the survey point to have the real elevation. It's a terrible mistake, please help!!!

[Anonymous]

Please help

In Revit 2021 if you try to modify the elevation of the project with the PBP, you can´t. For example, I try to move my project up to 2800 meters over the survey point, so the model stay in the same place and the PBP desapear because of the view range. Now I don't know how to change the elevation of the whole project and to use spot elevation in relation to the survey point to have the real elevation. It's a terrible mistake, please help!!!

[ToanDN]

Move the survey point down 2800 meters.

[VictoriaBelvedere]

This process only applies at the beginning of a project:

In order for you to locate your building to real coordinates. Try to do the following:
You can either leave the Project base point to N=O E=0 & Elev=0
You're going to established the real elevation in your survey point N=YYYY, E=XXXX Elev=The elevations are determined by Architectural plans, check the section sheets and adjust your levels accordingly, I always pick the lowest elevation & start building up. 
Once the elevations for all your levels have been established, select all Grid Levels>click edit> change it to survey not project base point> click ok.
Once you have done all this lock the Project base point (circle) and the survey point (triangle).
No you can start placing your Grid lines, once you finish all the Grid >select all>lock all Grids.

If you need to relocate an exciting building do the following:
If you only need to adjust the coordinates you must select the project base point and UNCLIP it! 
This will move the coordinates of your project base point and will also move all the building elements you have in the project at the same time.
Use this for the survey point as well to relocate the entire building.

If you do this please make sure your annotations move as well if not you'll have to redo all the annotations.

I hope this helps!
If it doesn't you're welcome to email me any time 🙂

[SteveKStafford]

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If you need to relocate an exciting building do the following:
If you only need to adjust the coordinates you must select the project base point and UNCLIP it! 

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Context is important, the reason this thread exists is because the Project Base Point no longer has a clip icon. You can't unclip or clip it.

[Anonymous]

A clipped Project Base Point can indeed move a project.  I used it on every project to set up shared coordinates.  The survey point doesn't seem to move the project in 2020 either.  Unclipped, the location can change but it does not change the location of the model.  It will only move the project if you leave it clipped.  And that involves a little bit of eyeball work which i don't like.  I have it when Aut0desk arbitrarily changes functionality in new iterations. Too bad they have a virtual monopoly in the industry.

[SteveKStafford]

Move relative to what?

[Anonymous]

Hi there, was this issue ever resolved? I am now running into this for the first time in 2020.1. For some reason my project base point got placed like 50 miles from my project. I don't know how that happened initially and didn't originally catch that it had done that (I used the Shared Reference Point tool in C3D), but now I have a couple of bridges modeled in two separate files that are aligned using shared coordinates and the coordinates of the model are exactly where they're supposed to be, the only thing out of place is the PBP. In the past when the PBP was too far from the project we would just unclip it, move it to where it needed to be and then reclip it. Worked fine every time. I have no idea why Autodesk changed this simple easy feature and I don't see how it was useless before as some have stated. I need it to do this one thing but its fighting me. I just want to move the base point. What am I doing wrong? Anyone?

[RobDraw]

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@Anonymous wrote:

In the past when the PBP was too far from the project we would just unclip it, move it to where it needed to be and then reclip it. 

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From what has been said in this thread already. Unclipping the PBP was never necessary.

[SteveKStafford]

If I read your post correctly, everything is working, all aligned between models based on the shared coordinate system? If accurate why do you need to move the Project Base Point (PBP)? You could turn it off and ignore it.

A common reason a model gets created very far from the the Internal Origin (IO) is that people link a survey and start modelling on top of it without moving the essential part of the survey close to the IO. That's what really matters; that a model's elements are located near the Internal Origin.

If you right-click on the PBP and the option for Move to Internal Origin is active then that should reposition it at the Internal Origin. If it isn't then that means it is already at the IO. If so then your model is very far from the IO, not the PBP. Leaving the model in this state can cause graphic display anomalies.

In the past the PBP altered the shared coordinate system when someone moved the PBP while clipped. People thought by moving the PBP that way was moving their project. It wasn't/didn't...it actually altered/shifted the Shared Coordinate System (SCS). As such this created many support issues which ultimately could be attributed to a misunderstanding of how the features interacted. Removing the clip eliminates that problem. The PBP can no longer change the SCS.

[petebalf]

With this change I'm currently battling changing a method I had. Like others I had a process that worked. If students hadn't chosen site yet, they would start modelling the sample building we have. Then to show them the procedure of moving their project vertically, originally built at 0.000 GFL and after placing their topo at the correct topo, (say site 10.500 L west to 10.000 R east) we would move clipped PBP up the amount it took for GFL to land nicely at the height it would in the topo. (say 10250)  Naturally topo moved up above that the same amount with the relocate, so we then selected topo only and moved that down by the same amount. Maybe adjustments for what level heads and contour read. Job done. Contour labels, topo edit all easy and using correct numbers. That method doesn't work anymore.

Now I can follow @SteveKStafford method mentioned in this thread and use relocate project upwards in an elev view. Up goes building, the topo above it and int origin, pbp as well, leaving survey point down. Then I drop the topo down the same amount. 10.250. Now building and topo bang on. And change level heads to elevation base=survey point to read the correct datum heights. (default was pbp I think, which is now up high with the int. origin.).

I can even change the contour labels to read correctly changing from project base reference to survey point reference.

BUT go to edit the topography and all I have are points of what is effectively absolute to Int origin.. So height adjustments can't be inputted as topo datum heights, rather more difference from int origin. (Which makes me think,Would it be handy to have the option of absolute heights to be from survey or int origin?)

Is this procedure I am doing incorrect? All seems to work except placing or adjusting topo points are not indicative of the absolute elevation anymore.

As a matter of interest too, the contour labels don't seem to obey project base height as a reference. I can move pbp down in elevation, then select the contour labels and change their elevation  base to pbp, and it remains showing the same as internal origin indication..

My normal approach is indicate to students that creation of topo is best first, and then levels height adjustments made to fit with the topo. Normal creation of proposed topo naturally follows. All good. And the building is built. But sometimes, we find ourselves with a sample building to build, with site yet unchosen. So we build at 0.000 initially. I'm just trying to find the simplest method to raise the building and levels et al up to a different height without running into ramifications, like new point placements in topo not being inputted as the real height.

Sorry, it's a bit difficult to explain, but I think I got there. 🤔

cheers

[SteveKStafford]

The Relocate Project command existed before the PBP was added to Revit. Using the move command on the PBP in an elevation was equal to (the same result as) Relocate Project.

Toposurface points are only based on the Internal Origin of the project. Relocate Project is a sleight of hand trick, giving the appearance of the project being at the real site elevation while remaining at the internal origin. Moving the toposurface up/down relative to the building is one way to edit while entering real point elevation values.

I prefer to use a separate site model and place the toposurface at the real elevation along with other site features. Then I link the building(s) to the site model and move it up to the intended ground floor elevation. I can move the building around easily, rotate it if necessary as well as determine the ideal elevation. It's also very easy to change. The more likely changes will occur the more effective it is as well as the more buildings involved. I can use Publish Coordinates from the site model (as long as it is not a BIM 360 hosted project) to define building relationships to the site and then link buildings to each other or the site into the building models via By Shared Coordinates. It's quite versatile.

[petebalf]

Thanks Steve, yes I can understand all that. It seems keeping the building and site linked as opposed to being in the same model is a favoured way, and I can see the reasons in an office situation. Possibly more aligned with commercial than Residential.

However FWIW I really do think that having the two in the same project is the preferred way for smaller residential (and small commercial with no revit-using consultants) designers. i.e. 1 or 2 person offices. A lot of those people I know, and don't want to link, or use BIM 360 or engage in any other way than a single local Revit project. And it's things like this they need to learn 'workarounds' for, more so than they should. To those people, adjusting points on a topo would logically mean those points should mention the height their contours can say. And a simple choice of point entry height datum would fix that.

Anyhoo, there's a way around it, and I will use that.

Thanks

Pete