Other objects moving after Reference Planes and Dimensions are Added and Flexed

[davidwilliamedwards]

I wish I knew more about why this happens. I'm taking a simple table Family and adding Reference Planes and Dimensions in order to create a set of tables with different dimensions using Types. However as soon as the dimensions of the Table are changed the objects making up the Legs also move. I've Copied them to other placed in the file. I've Copy/Pasted them from another Family. Even put them in Groups. This is maddening. 

Original table Family

After adding Reference Planes and Dimension.

After Flexing - noticed the parts circled has moved - WHY???

[chrisplyler]

When you Edit the offending extrusions, and you see the temp dims, notice that there is a temp dim at each end constraining the extrusion to the edge of the table. Move the witness line of those temp dims from the table edge to the center reference line. Now that extrusion edge will keep it's distance from the center of table instead of from edge of table.

[davidwilliamedwards]

These will eventually be placed in Groups to move with the edge of the
table, so don't want any constraints at all. Why are these hidden
constraints created in the first place? Can't I just delete them?

Doing things which you assume the user wants done causes a lot of trouble,
time, money and frustration.

[chrisplyler]

They will go away when you give the geometry REAL constraints.

Read up on Revit's recommended workflow for family creation, and stop trying to do stuff backasswards and then complaining about it.

[davidwilliamedwards]

Thanks - "offending extrusions" - I just want to stay where I created it until I tell it otherwise - very offending indeed. 

[chrisplyler]

They will stay where you created them when you learn the proper order of workflow for creating Revit families, which is to develop your skeleton of reference planes/lines first, get any parameterization flexing correctly, and then build your physical geometry onto that skeleton.

Revit is associative. It has to pick SOMETHING to know where a line belongs. If you haven't given it something obvious, or at least aligned/locked to something after-the-fact, it has to guess. So stop making it guess.

Good luck.

Oh, P.S. - Give me kudos and solutions and pats on the head and stuff. I'm trying to catch up to ToanDN. That dude is like an animal.

[davidwilliamedwards]

"It has to pick SOMETHING to know where a line belongs." No, it doesn't!
Nothing should not move EVER until I tell it to. "Parametric" should not
imply guess work on the applications part.

So you're saying it's impossible to add this functionality after the fact.
I'm telling it exactly what I want locked to what, adding which
dimensions/parameters I need changed. Why does it not leave what I haven't
told it to change alone? It moved objects with no hidden dimensions.

So the proper Revit workflow is: Start Over? I've been at this too long to
let them think this is the right way to have their software function. I'm
tired of thinking I'm the stupid one because I can't make this illogical
workflow correct.

[chrisplyler · Accepted solution]

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@davidwilliamedwards wrote:

So the proper Revit workflow is: Start Over? I've been at this too long to
let them think this is the right way to have their software function. I'm
tired of thinking I'm the stupid one because I can't make this illogical
workflow correct.

---

Not on this family at this point, no. As you build the proper framework and constraints, the stupid temporary ones will go away.

But in the future, if you follow the recommended workflow, you won't have this much trouble in the first place.

You are not stupid for thinking it's annoying. But you might be better served by accepting the annoying conditions and working with them instead of against them, at least if you believe that "better" means getting stuff done. I agree with you that it would be nicer if Revit didn't guess at what we want. But it does, and so there's a recommended workflow that avoids the issues that can create.

Are you upset by the fact that a Door moves along with a Wall when you move the Wall?

[Sahay_R]

You have been presented with multiple solutions that work - namely multiple different methods to skin a cat. Both give the desired result - legs that do not move unless commanded to. It's up to you to pick whichever solution works best for you. If it works, then it isn't illogical - right?

[davidwilliamedwards]

I've always been an advocate for the user. Too often developers for large applications such as this lose the need to work on the smaller details. But it's things like this that us in the trenches spend hours trying to figure out. I've found that automatic features are great until they don't work right and their assumption is not the intended. In all cases added an "expert" mode where these types of issues could be adjusted manually also help in the long run. 

I don't just grouse - after reviewing 300 different CAD applications, I can tell developers exactly what simple adjustments are need to make things much easier for the user. But they won't listen to me. 

[davidwilliamedwards]

You are absolutely correct. But as a mentioned above - workarounds often
bring to light simple adjustments which could be to the application so that
the workaround is not necessary. I'm not just interesting in getting the
job done this time around, but making the software easier for the average
user. And I've been at this long enough to know that I'm not the only one
that finds this confusing. When I hear "proper steps" - I just imagine what
happens when something is missed.

[chrisplyler]

Well, you don't have to imagine. You've just encountered it.

It's like you said already... the software "guessing" what the user wants is all fine and dandy, until it isn't. Well, it's fine and dandy more often than it isn't. So for more users, more often, it's a thing that they are happy to have. They're happy when a door is automatically assumed to move with a wall without having to manually constrain every door to its wall.

This forum is for specific solutions, which you have received. The Revit Ideas forum is where you can whine about functionality and maybe one of the developers might glance over it before taking his afternoon nap.

[ioannis_olav]

I encountered a similar issue. 

After copying the geometry from another family into a new family template a wanted to align the RPs to "fit" the geometry. Thats when things started moving. 

I solved this by grouping the geometry before copying and keeping it grouped.