Nested mullion family does not stretch with Host Window

[newurbanite]

I have created a casement window family, and nested a generic model family for the mullions/muntins, which I want to have the ability to stretch when I change the window size in the Revit project that I bring the window family with hosted mullions into. I have been told in previos posts that nesting a generic model containg the mullions into the window family is the best way to have a window where the mullions dynamically stretch with the window size. I did the window and mullion families in the following order:

1) I first created the casement window family, and deleted the mullions,

2) I then created the generic model, and made the mullions as an extrusion, using reference planes and offsetting from the reference planes to constrain the extrusion lines. I then "shared" the generic model when it was completed and loaded it both into the host window family and the revit project.

3) I then nested the generic mullion model into the host window family by using Insert > Load Family and placing it in the window family where it needed to be.

4) I then loaded the window family with hosted mullion family into the revit project and placed the window. It looked fine, but when I changed the size of the window, the mullions did not stretch with the overall window.

I need to know what I'm doing wrong/missing, and in which family I am missing it. It would be great if whoever responds would be specific about what extra I need to do, and in which family (nested or host) I need to do it, being as specific to the command by command instructions as possible. I'm sorry to be demanding, but I have posted about this subject over the past few weeks and have gotten answers that are just not that specific in regard to what to do in which family.

I have attached both the nested generic model family and the host window family to hopefully help you identify what I missed/did wrong.

Thanks

[barthbradley]

By "mullions", do you mean "muntins" (aka Simulated Divided Lites)? I just recently built such a family. 

My muntin family is line-based and nested into sash/glazing family, and then arrayed. In order for them to flex with the window size, one end of the muntin family needs to be locked to a Ref. Plane in the sash/glazing family, and then it's length needs to be parameterized. Locking the other end of the muntin to a Ref. Plane won't work. 

P.S. I haven't looked at your family, so pardon me if I'm not speaking directly to your issue.

[Alfredo_Medina]

Just nesting the muntin family is not going to make it stretch or shorten as per the size of the window. You need to associate the Length parameter of the muntin family with another Length parameter in the host family (the window family).

[barthbradley]

Alfredo: Great minds think alike...just not talk alike. Exactly what I said, but you said it better. 

[ToanDN]

@newurbanite

Did you bother to look at the screencast at all? First, you kept saying it didn't work without even trying it in the family I revised and posted until I asked you for the second time. When I asked you read up on nesting family parameters, you came back saying finding nothing written. It's literally the first link from Google search for "nesting family parameters Revit", straight from Autodesk documentation.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/search-result/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2015/ENU/RevitLT-Customize/fil...

We are here willing to helo but you must put some efforts into it yourself.

[barthbradley]

You seem upset, Toan.

I’m reminded of this scene out of the movie Reservoir Dogs; “Are you going to bark all day, little doggie; or are you going to bite”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0Y7brwz6fA

Enjoy

[ToanDN]

Oddly enough that is a favorite scene of one of my favorite movies.

[newurbanite]

Yes, if by screen cast you mean screenshots, yes, I DID look at them. That's why in an earlier reply to you, I mentioned the "family Types" screenshot and asked if all the parameters in that screenshot would need to be added in the nested (muntin) family, to which your answer was no. I also DID open up the very same link (Associate Family Parameters) that you included in your reply, and thought I had actually attached it to one of my earlier posts, as well as mentioned it. And believe me, I HAVE been putting effort into this myself - it's just that I do not have the same amount of Revit experience as you probably do, and therefore don't quite understand all the lingo (i.e I did not realize until you told me that "skeleton" means reference plane) and how to apply the lingo when I'm in Revit. Trust me, I REALLY want to figure this thing out myself (with yours and others help), and I do appreciate your help.

[newurbanite]

So, in the nested generic model/muntin family, I need to go into Edit Extrusion and click on reference planes on two sides and unlock them - as in attached screenshot #9?

When you say  it's length needs to be parameterized, do you mean, when I'm in the generic model/muntin family, when I click on Family Types, I should see what's shown in Screenshot #10? Is this what's called Associating the length parameter of the muntin family with another length parameter in the host family (window family) - see screenshot #12 for Family Types in the host (window) family.

[ToanDN]

I meant the screencast in your other thread, essentialy the same questions.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-architecture-forum/window-does-not-keep-its-top-frame-width/m-p...

[barthbradley]

NO, not in the muntin family - In the host family where you're nesting the muntins. The muntins have a length parameter;  you need to associated that length to the host length parameter that controls the sizing of the glazing and/or sash. Additionally, you need to align and lock ONLY ONE END of the muntin family to a Ref. Plane in the host - that Ref. Plane could be one of the same Ref. Planes that you aligned and locked your glazing and/or sash geometry to.  The point is that you don't constrain both ends to Ref. Planes. You leave one end free. It will lengthen of shorten based on the length value it pulls from the host.

 IT WOULD BE A HECK OF A LOT FASTER JUST TO SHOW YOU. POST YOUR HOST FAMILY.

[barthbradley]

I just downloaded the your family from your first post. Is this what you're describing?! This is nothing like I was talking about, and nor what you described. The only problem is see here it that there no parameters whatsoever in your "MULLION" family (nor is it line-based as you described) - AND, it is a poorly built family - both of them. You need to align and lock geometry and provide more parameters to control things better.

[Alfredo_Medina]

With all due respect, and please don't get my words in the wrong way, but please understand that this is just an internet forum, limited to the voluntary help of users who want to share some of their time to help others. But there are other resources for learning, where you can make a more productive use of your time understanding all these things, and avoiding the frustration. 

[barthbradley]

...of course, if someone wants to pay for our advice and tutelage, I'll consider those offers.

[newurbanite]

Actually, I would be interested in paying for shared screen tutoring as that may be the best way for me to fully understand nested and host window parameters, and some other Revit subjects. If you offer this kind of tutoring, let me know and we can discuss offline/e-mail.

Thanks

[barthbradley]

Brian: may I make another suggestion that might help you as well?

Go to Marvin.com and navigate to their BIM downloads page. There you’ll find Revit families for most of their Window and Door products available to download. They are well-constructed and intelligible, and I think they will be immensely helpful to you. This is how I learned a lot myself; by “reverse-engineering” Manufacturer BIM content. And, there’s plenty of it out there free of charge. Plus! it’s a fun way to learn; breaking something apart and putting it back together. At least it is for me.  

Stay thirsty my friend.

http://www.marvin.com/support/technical-resources?rc=24&brand=marvin,integrity,infinity&prod=0&draw=...

[RDAOU]

@newurbanite Hi and welcome to the forum 🙂

first off... @ToanDN has posted a reply to this topic as well as you alternate post which discuss the same issue I believe...watching that screencast I am quite sure it should solve the problem in discussion. And I think you should mark it as a solution for you post.

With regard to tutoring and tutorials; you do not really jump into investments when you do not really need to. There are lots of resources on Autodesk Knowledge network, YouTube and many other blogs which discuss in detail the best practices and major guidelines of modeling families. If you are interested I can look up some good links for you and you can read up and do an it if practice...

now o where is the FREE offer...after you do the reading and if you do not feel confident that you understood it right or if you have more questions; I would be glad to help you out over the weekend with shared screencasts or over Skype ... No charges as long as you read up a bit and as long as it is a full coarse kinda session:)

cheers