Model Groups: Duplicating System Families when creating additional Model Groups

[jamie_owens_Luminuat]

I recently received an issue where a model group was created but every time that a new instance of that model group is added, it is duplicating one of the system families.  in the case of the question, it was ceiling type that kept duplicating, so I dug in and tried to find the uniqueness between the two model groups that would case the ceiling type to duplicate.  There was absolutely nothing that was different between the model groups.  If you ungrouped the model group and kept everything still selected and regrouped everything, the issue went away and i could make a hundred copies of the group with a problem.  This left me puzzled but we had a solution that resolved the problem.

Being the tech people we are, we couldn't leave it alone.  Someone proposed the idea of what if the ceiling type that is duplicating was created while in the model group edit mode?  It got me thinking that seems like a logical workflow by many.  So i created a fresh test project and tested this new theory.

Here was the workflow:

- Model a wall

- Create a model group of this wall

- Edit the model group and duplicate the wall type but don't actually use the wall type in the model group

- Close the model group

- Create additional instances of the model group

The results were the same as the original issue, each time the model group was placed, the wall type that was created inside of the edit mode, would be duplicated, even though the wall type did not exist in the actual model group, however a legend component is being included of that duplicated wall type within the model group.

My only logic is that because the routine was ran in the model group edit mode, for some reason Revit is adding a legend component of the duplicated wall type to the model group.  What I still can't figure out is why it would duplicate the family type vs causing the model group to be different and force it to create a new model group. 

What I have also discovered is, if I delete the original duplicated wall type that was created within the model group edit mode, the issue goes away.  This would solve the issue as long as the original duplicated element is not used anywhere.

Has anyone else seen this and/or have found a method to break the cycle other than to ungroup and regroup?

[barthbradley]

I know exactly what you are talking about.  That's typical Revit behavior. What's curious though, is that Revit isn't throwing up any Warnings.  It should be.  

[Corsten.Au]

Hello

I was able to replicate the same thing..

Seems while editing the Model, those editing are saved as an Action / Script / Macros

don't know what to call... cause of that duplicating the Group runs all those action and it cannot

just create a new wall again with the same name, and ends up duplicating and gives new name with

suffix..

Only solution seems not to duplicate anything while editing the group..

so if we need different wall types.. create them before hand and then use it in the group..

This does seem like a bug at the same time more of a " Coding" issue, copying group running a 

smart script which is actually not helping in this condition..

Cheers !

[barthbradley]

Are you guys not getting pop-up Warnings?  

[Corsten.Au]

we are getting warnings...

I think his worry is why its creating duplicates of wall type every time there is a copy made from group..

Warnings... I think thats how he realised its creating duplicate of families...

[jamie_owens_Luminuat]

Yes, I get the pop-up warning when I try to create another instance of the model group that the family type has to be duplicated but that is the only warning that is received.

[barthbradley]

Got it! Thanks. 

You know, anytime I get a Warning, I just figure I went wrong; not the Program.  There's another one I hate getting too  -- the "Fix Groups" one.  ARRGH!    

[koert.vynckier]

Excellent post, glad we found the cause and solution to this problem in time. Working with people relatively new to Revit can cause all sorts of things to go wrong. This is obviously one of them and not everybody pays as much attention to warnings as they should.

Revit should really just not allow System Type duplication in Edit Group Mode when it will just end up making your model incredibly slow.

[Anonymous]

how did you fix this???

thanks!

[ToanDN]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

how did you fix this???

thanks!

---

Do not edit type or add new a type when you are in the group editing environment.

[FAIR59]

A better method might be:

• Select a groupInstance
• Make a link of that group. [Modify][Group][Link]{Replace with a new project file}{filename: Same as group name}
• Select the new linkInstance
• Bind the Link. [Modify][Link][Bind Link]{ replace the existing groups? Yes}

If you can look in the database, which you probably can, as you discovered the offending (legend)element, the best method is:

• Select a groupInstance
• Look in the database, find and record the Id of the Legend-element(s)
• Edit the group
• Select the Legend-element(s) [Manage][Inquiry][Select by ID]
• Delete the Legend-elements
• Finish editing.

[jamie_owens_Luminuat]

The best solution, I have found is to set the standard practice of not creating new types while working within model groups.  If you do end up making one in the model group and get the error (which you will) then the only solution I have found to solve the issue is to ungroup and regroup.  @FAIR59's solution of finding the legend component ID and searching for it and deleting it, sounds like a possibility but I have not tested it.

[NateEmber]

I am getting this issue with a legend component even though I did not duplicate a wall type in edit mode.  I made the duplicate outside of edit mode, then edited the group, changed some walls to the new type and tried to finish editing; I get an error about group conflicts with a ceiling type legend component that has nothing to do with the wall type change.  Again, selecting by ID to delete the component only excludes it from the unit group.

[FAIR59]

the issue with legend components occurs with the system families - walls, floors and ceilings, i.e. the "layered" families. At some point you have duplicated an ceiling-type while editing a group. 

To delete the legend component, you need to be in the [Group Edit] mode.