Lighting Fixtures and Detail Items

[Anonymous]

Hey there.

I am modeling a lighting fixture with a couple of detail items nested inside (one regular, the other emergency).

I have two questions:

- Why is a lighting fixture family always upside down in Revit? If I load it into a project, it will snap to the floor and not to the ceiling as it should (I have to solve this by nesting the fixture into a generic face-based component...)

- I need my family to show up as projected 3D in the RCP and as Detail Item in the floor plan. So far, it shows up as Detail Item in the RCP and it does not even show up in the floor plan. What am I doing wrong?

[barthbradley]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Hey there.

I am modeling a lighting fixture with a couple of detail items nested inside (one regular, the other emergency).

I have two questions:

- Why is a lighting fixture family always upside down in Revit? If I load it into a project, it will snap to the floor and not to the ceiling as it should (I have to solve this by nesting the fixture into a generic face-based component...)

- I need my family to show up as projected 3D in the RCP and as Detail Item in the floor plan. So far, it shows up as Detail Item in the RCP and it does not even show up in the floor plan. What am I doing wrong?

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Very confusing. So it sounds like what you're saying is that want elements --  that are above the view's cut plane  -- to be visible in that view.  For instance: you want ceiling light fixtures to show up on the Floor Plan.  If this is what you want, then add a model line in the fixture family that extends some distance from the bottom of the fixture in the direction of the floor below.  The concept being that the Floor Plan's Cut Plane will intersect with this model line in the Project and thus, make it visible in the Floor Plan View.  

[Anonymous]

Hello barthbradley,

To me it does not seem confusing at all. Once again:

I need the 2D Detail Item to appear in Plan view (in place of the actual luminaire! Isn't that what a detail item is for?), whereas the light fixture has to show up in the RCP (nothing unusual here).

However, right now, if I set up the Detail Item in the fixture family (which is, I don't know why, modeled upside down), the Detail Item will be placed onto the Reference Level, and it will show up in the RCP, instead of Plan view.

And btw, if I set the body of the luminaire to be invisible in Plan - to make room for the Detail Item only - it will disappear from RCP as well (I can't control them separately).

[barthbradley]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Hello @barthbradley,

To me it does not seem confusing at all.  

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Well; that makes one of us. 

Post your family.  Maybe seeing it will help clear up my confusion. 

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@Anonymous wrote:

I need the 2D Detail Item to appear in Plan view (in place of the actual luminaire! Isn't that what a detail item is for?), whereas the light fixture has to show up in the RCP (nothing unusual here)

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In answer to your question, "Isn't that what a detail item is for?" : No. 

[Anonymous]

Are you, by any chance, placing the lighting fixtures in a floor plan? If yes, place them in a RCP. They should stick directly to the ceiling and the detail symbol should also be fine.
If the floor (or the level) is the face you place them on, it's normal to be upside down.

[Anonymous]

To get what you are asking:

1) In the light fixture family, model the 3D you want to see in RCP, and create the detail items with symbolic linework or actual detail items

2) Draw a vertical invisible model line that would extend past your view range in floor plan

3) All symbolic family elements will show up in plan when the view range cuts any portion of the family (the invisible line). Make sure the 3D elements are set so that show when cut in plan is unchecked.

4) To not see the symbolic elements in RCP, use one of any number of visibility techniques that best suit your project, like assigning Detail Level or Subcategories to the element and making sure the RCP view VV/VG is appropriately set up.

5) Insert ceiling hosted light fixtures in RCP in order to attached them to ceilings

[Anonymous]

Attached is the actual family and how it should look like.

What exactly is the Detail Item for? I was told it should be used in place of Annotations.

[Anonymous]

I am placing the family in the 3D first, and then making sure it is hosted in the ceiling.

[Anonymous]

The Detail Item is already nested in the family and its visibility depends on the luminaire type.

I've tried with the invisible model line (I knew the trick beforehand) but it hasn't worked so far. My mistake, I guess. My question is then: how do I separate its visibility in plan from its visibility in the RCP?

[barthbradley]

Well, first off: a Detail Line is drawn at the detail plane of the view (the plane that is closest to you as you look at the view). 

Second: if none of the family elements intersect with the view cur range, then nothing from the family is going to "project" into the view (hence, the Model-Line Trick I offered up before).  

[Anonymous]

@barthbradley I can't attach the family! Don't know why! 😞

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

You have to know the basics. A detail item is a 2D element that shows to scale. For example, your 36" fixture will look like a 36" fixture. An annotation is a 2D symbol that is always the same size on paper. For example, a 1/4" door tag will always be 1/4" regardless of the view scale. That's why you were told to use detail items instead of annotations.

Regardless, plans or RCP's only show the 2D elements of a family if the view cut plane intersects the family. Therefore, the standard trick for ceiling elements to show up in plan is to make an invisible model line that projects downward. If the ceiling is 10' high and the plan view range cut plane is at 3', the invisible line needs to be over 7' long in order to show up in plan.

The easiest way to try not seeing that detail element in RCP as well is to select that detail item when in the family, and select Visibility Settings. Make sure only 'Coarse' is checked and reload into project. In the project's plan view, either make the entire view Coarse, or if that is not ideal, set just the Light Fixture category to Coarse in Visibility Graphics. Make sure the RCP is set to Medium or Fine detail.

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

For your first question (why are they upside down?), i think the screencast below could help.

If you are placing them in 3D and they are face-based, the orientation of the view matters.

For the other question, you already have the solution in this thread. Make a model line in the family that helps you intersect the cut plane of the floor plan. Make sure you set it to the <Invisible Lines> category.

You should get this: