Keynote Table file in Revit Schedule

[DanielKP2Z9V]

I may be missing something fundamental about the way Keynote files are meant to be used, but it takes about a minute already to reload the file on the current project, so I thought about giving this a try - why not pull keynote table directly from keynote parameters or from a designated schedule that pull these parameters directly in revit instead of going via a separate keynote file?

The only reason why we use keynotes is keynote legends - schedules which automatically list only keynotes from families that are present on the sheet. That is really useful and I think would be even better if user didn't have to do a roundtrip out of the keynote schedule to keynote file and back into revit.

Please correct me if this is some useless use of keynote schedules and the same goal could be accomplished by other means.

[barthbradley]

Why are you reloading?  Are your keynotes referencing more than one standard specification system - more than the latest CSI Master format system?  If so, maybe keynotes is not the way to go.   Maybe a Note Block is what you need. 

 https://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2022/ENU/?guid=GUID-99ED877E-5262-4CA7-ABC1-F62F6FEB22CC

[DanielKP2Z9V]

From what I saw just now NoteBlocks don't store information in model families, but in their own annotation families - I am trying to keep information in parameters of each detail family, so if it's used on other sheets their keynote and description carries over automatically.

Reloading of keynotes is necessary, because I'm generating the keynote file straight out of keynote schedule in revit. Changes are done in revit and pulled back into revit for them to appear in keynote schedules.

[vitorbortoncello]

PyRevit add-in has a Keynote Manager that really improves the workflow, i sugest trying it

https://pyrevitlabs.notion.site/Manage-Keynotes-6f083d6f66fe43d68dc5d5407c8e19da

[barthbradley]

My question remains. The crux of your issue, as I understand it, is that you need to keep reloading the txt file all the time. Why are you reloading?  If your Project is only referencing one Keynote File, there should be no reason to keep reloading.  Additionally, you can save the Keynote File location to a Project Template (rte) and start New Projects from this Template.

Regarding this statement of yours, it makes no sense me:  

"Reloading of keynotes is necessary, because I'm generating the keynote file straight out of keynote schedule in revit. Changes are done in revit and pulled back into revit for them to appear in keynote schedules."

What do you mean you are "generating the keynote file straight out of keynote schedule in Revit" ? That's paradoxical and mind-bending.  Help me out here. 

[ToanDN]

You should have a keynote text file to begin with.  There is no reason to generate the text file from Revit keynote legend everytime you add more elements in the model.  It's a completely backward workflow.

[SteveKStafford]

From The Princess Bride... "you keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means"... 🙂

Keynotes are possible two ways with actual tools/commands in Revit; Keynotes and Noteblock Schedules. Keynotes uses an external file and keynote tags and are associated with the Keynote parameter each element has. Noteblocks are generic annotation families that have parameters that can be reported in a noteblock schedule.

Keynotes are associated with actual elements in the project and report information stored in an external file. Noteblock schedules only report the instances of a specific generic annotation family that you have placed in a view. This means that noteblocks know nothing about the project and depend entirely on you choosing the correct noteblock family to place in a view and choosing the appropriate type to display the desired "keynote" number. Its relationship to the model is inferred by the reader based on its proximity to an element in the drawing or what its leader/arrow point to.

Keynotes on the other hand are related to actual elements you have to select/pick and then choose from the external file to identify the relevant "keyed" information.

So which system are you actually using? It sounds like you're using a Noteblock family and Noteblock schedule...which is more like "old school" block w/attributes in AutoCAD.

[DanielKP2Z9V]

"Inconceivable!" 🙂

Everything you said is correct, but neither keynotes nor noteblocks suit my requirements:

- use parameters stored in families themselves (not their annotations)

- create schedule only of families (detail items) placed on the sheet, based on these parameters

as you said keynotes don't solve this problem, because they require external file (which isn't too bad, if you accept exporting and reloading it, which as I can see isn't intended use case for keynotes)

noteblocks don't solve this problem, because they are not encapsulated by families

therefore I wanted to propose an alternative solution, which I called "keynote table file in revit schedule", but don't mind using another name instead if that required a completely new element type

[DanielKP2Z9V]

> What do you mean you are "generating the keynote file straight out of keynote schedule in Revit" ? That's paradoxical and mind-bending.  Help me out here. 

Keynote descriptions and codes are not ready yet, I am adding them dynamically directly in revit as project progresses - they don't exist in a separate spreadsheet, because BIM. Therefore, external file doesn't help in this workflow.

[barthbradley · Accepted solution]

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@DanielKP2Z9V wrote:

The only reason why we use keynotes is keynote legends - schedules which automatically list only keynotes from families that are present on the sheet.

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Based on what you are saying here, maybe Filter by Sheet is all you need?  

https://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2023/ENU/?guid=GUID-72859AB5-541B-4760-B3CE-15DA15124683

[DanielKP2Z9V]

Yes, that solves this problem. 

It also made me realize that not only it would have to filter elements on the sheet, but also elements that contain keynote/tag t replicate current keynote schedule behavior. But this probably should be a separate question

.

[SteveKStafford]

The Keynote tools were built in response to requests from firms that reference the Construction Specification Institute (CSI) where each division and sub-division defines what elements in the model are. The default keynote source files are based on that concept. That can be reworked to define your own logical organization of standardized notes that people should use to eliminate things that can be misspelled or stated that the company does not want to be said in the documentation.

Noteblock predate Keynotes and mimic the workflow we used in AutoCAD via Blocks with attributes, where I place a symbol block and type in a value. Revit added the capability of scheduling instances of these noteblocks as an improvement beyond what AutoCAD could do at the time.

Some firms want a complete list of keynotes to appear on a sheet, which invites questions from contractors about "missing" relevant keynoted elements in the drawing on the sheet. As in, "I see keynote xxxx but there isn't a tagged item in the drawing, is that a mistake?"

Other firms want to only display a list of keynotes which are actually used on the drawing (thus Filter on Sheet). This also can generate questions...as in, "The list skips numbers 4 and 10, are these missing or irrelevant for this drawing?"

If you have a comprehensive "idea" for a new "keynoting" system...write it up and post in the Revit Ideas forum.