Issues creating angle parameter in family

[Rob_Durham]

Hi,

I tried asking this in the MEP forum but didn't get a reply. It's a family issue anyway so I figured you architects would probably know the answer so I'm re-posting here.

I am trying to create pan & tilt parameters in an existing CCTV camera family.

The wall bracket needs to remain fixed, whilst the camera and stem rotate about a pivot point in both horizontal (pan) and vertical (tilt) planes.

Starting with the pan angle, I have created a 45° reference line from the desired pivot point but I'm stuck at the first hurdle because when I try using the align tool to lock the end point of the reference line to the pivot point, I get the following error message.

The Dimension would overconstrain the Sketch.

There don't appear to be any other dimensions or constraints in the family that would give this error.

Please can someone take a look at the family and see if you can figure out why I'm getting this error? I'm using the Left Elevation view.

[RDAOU]

@Rob_Durham 

You probably were aligning it in the wrong view. Using the left view, I could align/Lock and lable the angle. (See GIF below) An alternative of reference lines some suggest to host the camera on a face of a revolve...(I personally prefer the ref. line method)

Note:

• You have too many overlaying reference planes. If you are not using for a specific purpose/constrain, clean them up
• If you are aiming at rotating the camera left/Right & Up/Down
  1. the 3D geometry of the Camera should be modeled in a separate family >> Nested in and hosted on the reference line (to rotate with it)
  2. You would need 2 Reference lines, one to control the horizonal angle and another to rotate the vertical one
  3. It makes it less complicated if the rotations are modeled in 2 steps
     • Family A: Model the Camera Geometry in a generic model family
     • Family B: In a generic Model place reference line 1 that controls horizontal rotation + Family A nested
     • Family C (end product): in a face based family, place Reference line 2 that controls vertical rotation + Family B nested

                             

[Rob_Durham]

Thank you very much for your help @RDAOU.

I have managed to get the left / right rotation working. 

One other question, which of the 3 families should the fixed bracket geometry be in?

[RDAOU]

The fixed parts can be modeled directly in Family 3.

• After you model these, switch to a side view and place the reference line which would rotate it UP and DOwn
• repeat process to lock and set anangle parameter
• Load the previous family and host on relevant plane of that ref. Line

Check the discussion Link below...It is the same concept but for a spot light rather than a camera. There is an attached family to the post reference below you can check it out  if you wish to compare mechanics

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-architecture-forum/problem-wtih-adjustable-angle/m-p/10689193/h...

[Rob_Durham]

Thanks again @RDAOU 

I have created the fixed geometry in a 3rd family and created an Up-Down reference line that seems to work.

However, I can't seem to host the previous family to to the new reference line in the 3rd family.

I've attached both here if you wouldn't mind taking a quick look.

Many thanks in advance.

[RDAOU]

@Rob_Durham 

The second families should not be a hosted family (you used a face based)...you need the camera in a horizontal position (parallel to the X,Y plane). When you nest the camera in, place it at the pivot of the refernce line (origin of rotation and family).

Practically, family A and B can simply be a generic model (see first reply)

[Rob_Durham]

Well I'm almost there @RDAOU,

When I load the family into the project the tilt angle works but the pan angle does not, however it does work within the family itself?

What am I missing?

[RDAOU]

@Rob_Durham 

make sure u have associated the angles properly to the right parameter in the parent family then reload into model. Remember the angle from the family u nested has also to be linked to a parameter in the parent family

[Rob_Durham]

@RDAOU & @azad.Nanva Ok I did that and the pan parameter now works but it messed up the tilt parameter.

Instead of tilting the camera up and down, it now rotates it about its centre line?

With a tilt of 45° it should've tilted the camera down by 45°. Instead it's twisted it 45° ?

Note that if I disassociate the pan parameter in the parent family, the tilt parameter works as it should again.

[Rob_Durham]

@RDAOU not sure if you missed my reply above. Any idea how to resolve this?

[RDAOU]

@Rob_Durham 

Sorry it kinda slipped in between the other posts..I have downloaded the family and associated the parameter Pan as previosly suggested and it seems to work as expected. See GIF below

Considering the fact that you modeled as Face based, maybe the issue lies within the face you are placing it on. Before you place on a wall, try to first hit space bar a few times till you get the right orientation then click mouse to place

[Rob_Durham]

@RDAOU thanks again for your continued assistance, however your GIF shows the same as what I am getting now, which is not the desired result.

If you change the pan angle to 0° and the tilt to 45° you will get the result I posted in my earlier screenshot.

The goal is to have the top and bottom edges (not faces) of the camera, always parallel to the ground.

Here's a screenshot from your GIF with the angles at 135 and 45°

I've exported the camera at this these angles to AutoCAD and manually rotated it to what it should look like. The one one the left is the original export, the one on the right is the desired 45° tilt downwards.

It's almost like a 3rd angle parameter is required to rotate the camera about its centre line, the same way I did in AutoCAD but this wouldn't help when the camera has a pan angle of 0° and a tilt of 45° as below, since the tilt should have tilted the camera down by 45°. Rotating about its centre line would not help in this instance.

Presently, the only time the tilt angle can be correct is when the pan angle is at 90°. See how the edges are parallel to the ground. No other pan angle will allow this.

[azad.Nanva]

did you mean this one ?

[Rob_Durham]

@azad.Nanva no that does not behave as I need it to. See my post above.

The camera should remain upright, for all pan / tilt angles.  In the image below, the one on the right is correct for pan and tilt angles of 45°.

Yours behaves as the one on the left.

[azad.Nanva]

what about this one?

[Rob_Durham]

@azad.Nanva yes that one seems to work correctly. How did you do it?

[azad.Nanva]

😁😁😁😁

It is complicated.

Do you have R2025 ?

[azad.Nanva]

If you don't have, it is not so important,I can explain step by step but not today,tomorrow

[Rob_Durham]

I need it to be in R2020 since it will be loaded into our Revit template file which 2020.

Thank you for your assistance @azad.Nanva and @RDAOU and I look forward to the instructions when you get chance.