interference check : walls interfering with beams

[sakar_deepak]

Hi all,

My walls are running level to level in architectural model. Concrete beams are running below the floor in structural model. 

I linked structural model in architectural model and ran interference check. Walls and beams show interference. 

How to automatically attach all walls to  beams so that they do not show interference ?

Attached is rvt file.

[barthbradley]

I'm not following. If your beams are longer than they should be, the solution would be to shorten the beams or adjust the location of the supports (e.g. walls in this case) . 

...no link in attached file, so I'm not seeing the interference you are speaking about.  But, from what you are describing, the link has floor beams and those beams are higher than the base of your walls. Is that about the size of it?  Sounds like you guys are not using the same levels. 

...maybe offsetting the link will solve. 

[sakar_deepak]

Attached more files.

Say, at 4th level, there is floor slab and beam is hanging down by 500 mm in structure model. Wall from 3rd level is going up to 4th level in architecture model. So, wall will clash with beam. 

If there were 1 or 2 walls only, one could easily modify the walls by assigning top offset -500 mm. But the problem is how to adjust so many walls. One , of course, can not do it one by one. The beam depths are varying for various beams. So one can not select all walls and assign top offset -500 mm either. 

There should be some way to attach walls to concrete beams just as the way Revit has 'attach wall to roof' tool.  

[barthbradley]

I don't know what to tell you, buddy, other than you need to check each of those collisions between Structural and Architectural element to verify what needs to be done to resolve it -- if anything (e.g. maybe the Engineer messed up). But, collectively joining all the overlapping geometries together to remove all the conflicts is dumb, IMO. Even if you could, what would be the Join Order? Structural takes precedence? How does that Join Order impact the Architectural design?  Does it work in every instance?  Maybe it doesn’t.  Maybe you need to sit down with your Structural Engineer and discuss alternatives.    

[sakar_deepak]

No, it is not design problem. Structure design is okay.

It is modelling problem in Revit. 

How do you attach block walls ( non structural walls ) to concrete beams above in your projects ? 

[barthbradley]

I don't know what you mean. You have over 300 collisions between Structural Framing and Walls, and none of them, as far as I can tell will be resolved by "Attaching" Walls.  Maybe, I'm not understanding what you mean by "Attach".  The "Attach Top/Base" tool in Revit is typically used to attach Walls to underside of Roofs. This not going to resolve your conflicts.  You have beams partially intersecting walls.  Basically, you need to build portions of the walls around the beams, in order to preserve your design.   The "Join Geometry" is a more appropriate tool.  But even then, there are additional issues caused by joining geometry (e.g. "slivers") where beams don't align perfectly with walls.   

[barthbradley]

BTW, if you are having issues attaching using the "Attach Top/Base" tool, it's likely due to the elements being misaligned. In other words, a portion of the wall you are attaching misses the target.  

Another way to Attach, is to attach to a Ref. Plane.   

[sakar_deepak]

Feel i am not able to explain my query properly.

Try to simplify. Lets forget the clash detection for a moment.

There are many walls and there are many beams above and a floor slab. When we draw floor Revit asks for the the walls to attach to the underside of floor. We choose yes and all walls attach to under side of floor slab. 

This way all walls attach to the underside of floor slab, walls do not attach to the underside of beams. Walls crosses beams and attach to the floor. 

This is a wrong result because in real construction walls are attached to beams. So, how to attach all walls to under side of the beams ?

Join tool is not useful here because one can not join so many walls one by one. 

Reference plane is also not useful here because the depth of various beams is different. Say, some beams are 500mm deep, some 600mm and 800mm. In this case also, walls need to be attached one by one.  

So, how to attach all block walls ( non structural walls ) to under side of the concrete beams ?

[ToanDN]

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@sakar_deepak wrote:

Feel i am not able to explain my query properly.

Try to simplify. Lets forget the clash detection for a moment.

There are many walls and there are many beams above and a floor slab. When we draw floor Revit asks for the the walls to attach to the underside of floor. We choose yes and all walls attach to under side of floor slab. 

This way all walls attach to the underside of floor slab, walls do not attach to the underside of beams. Walls crosses beams and attach to the floor. 

This is a wrong result because in real construction walls are attached to beams. So, how to attach all walls to under side of the beams ?

Use Join Geometry.

Join tool is not useful here because one can not join so many walls one by one. 

Yes it can.  Check Multiple Join box.

Reference plane is also not useful here because the depth of various beams is different. Say, some beams are 500mm deep, some 600mm and 800mm. In this case also, walls need to be attached one by one.  

So, how to attach all block walls ( non structural walls ) to under side of the concrete beams ?

Use Join Geometry.

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[barthbradley]

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@sakar_deepak wrote:

Feel i am not able to explain my query properly.

Try to simplify. Lets forget the clash detection for a moment.

---

Reference Planes is the only way to attach cleanly. Your Beams are NOT in alignment with the Walls (e.g. portion of Walls miss target).  Because of this, you are going to get "slivers" when you try to attach Walls directly to Beams.  You already have a bunch of them in your Project caused by Joining misaligned elements together.  I showed you a screenshot of just one of dozens in your project.  

Regarding your statement to "forget the clash detection for a moment" -- this is what your whole thread is about!  In fact, the title of this thread is "interference check : walls interfering with beams".   The clashes are exactly what you are trying to resolve by Attaching Walls to Beams. If there were no clashes, there would be no "Attaching" necessary. But more to the point, most of the 300 clashes reported that I have looked at, cannot be resolved by Attaching.   And, because of the numerous Wall-to-Beam misalignments, Attaching and Joining are only going to create a bunch of other issues. 

You need to get out of the weeds, and focus on the main issue -- WHY YOU HAVE OVER 300 CLASHES IN THE FIRST PLACE. That's extraordinary. Where did the collaboration and coordination break down?   

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[sakar_deepak]

Based on the discussion I make out that there are only two ways to join walls to beams. Use either reference plane or join geometry. In both ways elements have to be picked one by one. Even in Multiple option of Join Geometry as suggested by @ToanDN  though one can join multiple elements to one element, all elements have to be picked one by one.

Okay, lets settle down with this. Though i had hoped for a better solution from Revit because it is a fundamental thing. Just as Revit provided floor asking for attaching walls Revit should have provided beams asking the same too. Because mostly walls attach to beams and seldomly attach directly to the slab above.  

@barthbradley  300 clashes is scary. I have cad drawings of various disciplines provided by sub consultants. I am making revit models for clash detection. I made separate models for separate disciplines like one for architectural, another for structural and so on for fire, hvac and plumbing. No other person is involved in Revit model making.

If there is misalignment, it is drafting problem. I will have to align things. How can i find out the places where misalignment between walls and beams is occurring ? What is the method for it ? 

[barthbradley]

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@sakar_deepak wrote:

If there is misalignment, it is drafting problem. I will have to align things. How can i find out the places where misalignment between walls and beams is occurring ? What is the method for it ? 

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So you created both the Structural and the Architectural yourself?  Is the Structural built from the Architectural, or vice versa.  Either way, I'm assuming they were built on and share the same Datums.  I mean, you set them up to Link into each other; right? If so, I would expect them to align properly.  If they didn't, I would suspect that their Datums don't precisely match up with each other.  Easy fix. Align and Lock Datums.  

But, how to know after-the-face whether or not they are misaligned?  As soon as the first "sliver" showed up after joining, that would be the tell-tale sign.  Look at the screenshot I posted above showing "slivers".  That screenshot is from your Project.  Just isolate the Structural Framing Category and you'll see a bunch of "slivers" in your Project that were created when you joined Floors to Beams.    

[s232003620]

Hi @sakar_deepak 

If you are unable to attach so many architectural walls to structural beams, configure Navisworks to ignore this issue whenever it arises (Set the rules before running the test). This resolution is a bit tricky, and you may need to spend more time on it, but it will undoubtedly reduce the number of clashes. With these rules, you must include a statement explaining why you ignored these clashes.

[sakar_deepak]

@s232003620 . Nice suggestion. Will try it. 

But, again, would like to say Revit does not have solutions to so many common and simple problems. 

Walls actually attach to beams and hardly, once in a while only, attach directly to roof.  But Revit has a feature to attach walls automatically to roof / floor slab and not for to attach with beams. 

So kind of you to have replied on an old post. Thanks.