Have wall that requires multiple sweeps - revit says no

[Base12]

We have a masonry wall that has a very specific cornice profile on the top of the wall which steps as shown in the attached detail and image.  The top of the cornice requires a parapet cap.  I can use a wall sweep to make EITHER the cornice, OR the parapet cap, but not both as Revit says either: "Two sweeps cannot occur in the same location.", or (when tried raising the cap sweep above the cornice sweep), "The [higher] sweep is not attached to the wall" (and then Revit deletes it, grrr!).

As a temporary solution, I've made ONE profile which includes the shape of the cornice AND the parapet cap and "painted" the cap with a different material so that it displays, renders, details, etc, ok.  However the Architect requires the cap to be a separate piece so it can be scheduled.  I cannot determine how to accomplish this.

Something that I've considered, but have not been able to find is a method to create a custom wall profile that is inherent to the wall and not added later as a sweep/reveal.  This would put the shape of the stepped cornice into the wall itself.  Then I could add the cap sweep to that wall.  Don't see how to do that though.

Any help is appreciated!

[ToanDN]

1. Try split them to "parts" so that they can be scheduled separately. It is a theory, I am not sure if you can.

2. One is a true wall sweep and the other is a model in place sweep generic model (constrained to wall geometrically).

[Base12]

Thanks for the suggestion on breaking into parts, but I'm not sure that will give us the "true sweep" data needed for scheduling... the "model in place sweep generic model" sounds promising, but I'm unfamiliar with it?  Is that the same as a modeled in place mass?

[ToanDN]

0. Another thought, perhaps use a stacked wall to create the wall and cornice and a wall sweep for the parapet coping.

1. As for the "parts" method, you would be scheduling "parts", not wall sweeps. Though you could make the schedules look the same and the material takeoff output the same. In reality, the coping is not a wall sweep and more likely handled by a different trade.

2. I meant model an in-place generic model family for the coping sweeping a profile along a path constrained to the top of walls. You could do it with in-place mass as well.

[Gary_J_Orr]

I'm using 2016 (and 2015) and I do exactly as you are trying to do all the time. One sweep for a cornice, another for the parapet cap. When Revit warns you that there are two sweeps in the same place, ignore the warning. It will create the second sweep. (of course, you'll have to then offset the parapet cap sweep appropriately for the thickness of the cornice...

[Base12]

Thanks Gary,

The trouble I'm having with what you've suggested is that when the parapet cap is offset any distance above the wall (and turns a corner) then one of two things always happen:  either the corners of the parapet cap don't clean up (either overlap, or break apart), or segments of the parapet cap disappear altogether.  Have you seen this issue?  When I try to grip the blue dots to adjust, they just snap back into place and nothing changes.

Image-1 is of the parapet cap attached to the top of the wall and has nice, tidy corners.  The top of wall is +10'

Image-2 is of the parapet cap offset +2' (the height of the cornice). You can see that one of the parapet cap segments disappears.  On some walls all of the segments remain visible, but the corners break apart.  Sometimes they have a gap, sometimes they overlap (it's inconsistent).

[Gary_J_Orr]

Sorry for the extended time on my response... weekend and all 😉
Your problem may be coming from the fact that you are attaching your cornice as an additional height to the wall.
I typically attach my cornice as a subtractive element where the top of the cornice equals the top of the wall. Then, when I'm attaching the parapet cap it's attached to the same top of wall, with just a single offset (to account for the additional projection from the wall face).

In your case you're offsetting the Cap in two directions and that may be more than Revit can keep track of.

I did go back and look at the graphics in your original post...
What I believe I would do in this situation is create a second wall segment on top of the brick faced wall with the base at the top of wall height/roof slab bearing (locked in place face to face). This wall would use your insulation filler as it's only component layer with the sweep(s) embedded within the wall definition itself (measurements taken from top of wall down), subtracting themselves from the volume of the insulation layer. Then you will be attaching the parapet cap directly to the top of this wall and only need a single offset to align the face.
This should be cleaner and easier for Revit to maintain.

-G

[Base12]

Hi Gary,

I tried your suggestion about making the cornice a subtractive element (-2'-0") from the top of the main wall, and that seemed to work ok that far... I was then able to place the parapet cap on top of that, which is to say that visually it's 2'-0" above the top of the brick wall, but actually sits at the true top of the wall = to the top of the cornice.  The trouble is when the parapet cap is placed in this fashion (no offsets at all) the corners of the parapet cap don't/won't clean up.  I get the grips when I select it, but they are fixed in place and cannot be dragged to the correct locations unless it is actually touching the visual top of the wall (two feet below the actual top).

I will try the air gap technique extended up to the actual top of wall and attaching the cap to that, and let you know how it goes.

Thanks for your help with this

JP

[Base12 · Accepted solution]

I was able to add a membrane component layer to the inside of the wall (in the "Edit Structure" dialog), and made the material type "Air".  I unlocked all of the top edges except this layer.  This allows the cornice to cut the top of the wall where it is inserted, except it leaves the air layer sticking up past the other parts of the wall, but it is invisible... except for a single line that runs around the top interior representing the edge of the air material.  I guess I can hide that line in views where it is a problem, but otherwise I think this solves this issue.  Gosh, what an insane workaround!!

Thanks for all the suggestions!

PS. I've photoshopped the padlock symbols into the image just for reference because you can only see them one at a time.  This is just to illustrate which are locked, and which are not.