Face based family loses host after grouping

[Anonymous]

Hello all,

As the title says;

I've made a face based family. When I group that family with its host everything is fine. But when i make a copy of the group, the copy in the new group loses its host and in this case more importantly its elevation.

Is there anyway to fix or avoid this? Without having to place each family outside of groups?

I'd like to hear from you.

[Sahay_R]

Have you tried to edit the group and give the family a new host?

[Anonymous]

I've just tried it. It results in loss of its host in the other groups.

[Sahay_R]

Have you tried to make a copy without the group? May be worth a try.

[barthbradley]

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h.bakker wrote: But when i make a copy of the group, the copy in the new group loses its host and in this case more importantly its elevation.

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@Anonymous: What do you mean by the above quote? Are you nesting groups (a no-no)? And, how does the group lose its "elevation"? 

[Anonymous]

The group doesn't lose its elevation. The copy of the face based family in the group does.

Only copying the family does solve the problem but this is a very time consuming solution.

[FGPerraudin]

hi @Anonymous,

Could you send a copy of your group (if not confidential), just select it, and "link" it for exporting only the group, then cancel operation so that you keep your original as is...

I think we need more info, as usually face-based elements are quite stable is the host is part of the group...

François

[Anonymous]

The file linked shows what happens. I've placed the group twice, in the first one the elevation of the face based family is at 300 in the second it has reset to 0.

[FGPerraudin]

Did you see that it gets back to normal if you explode the group?

Still searching...

[Anonymous]

Hi,

The solution is as follows:

Whatever you have in group referencing to a host outside a group, create a reference plane on the same position with host and refer to it instead. Of course, include the respective reference plane within the group, probably it won't hurt anyway.

Greetings,

Dan

[Anonymous]

Hello distroe,

I think you've misread the issue. I'm not referencing to anything outside of the group.

Thanks anyway.

[barthbradley]

@Anonymous, Sorry, but I looking at your 2 groups here and trying to figure out how they different from one another. They are both located on the same level with no offset.  What is the problem? What am I looking for? 

...I'm only on my first cup of coffee this morning, so maybe I'm not fully alert yet and missing the obvious. 

[Anonymous]

No probl. However check the referencing. Sometimes objects refer to hosts outside groups and is not obvious.

Regards,
Dan

[barthbradley · Accepted solution]

@h.bakker: Okay, the second cup of coffee has kicked in and I see your issue clearly now. But, it is not an issue. Revit is right.

Fundamentally, @distroe is correct: when you group and copy, elements only reference associations within the group. In your case, your face-based family found its host (the wall), because the wall was part of the group - but it did not find its "elevation" relative to the project's Ref. Level, because the family itself contains no association to a Ref. Level. There is nothing for Revit to report. The family is at 0,0 relative to its own Origin Ref. Planes. 

To correct:, redefine the family as a wall-based family similar an OOTB family like the “Outlet-GFI”. 

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for your replies. I will make the family wall based as suggested.