ELEMENTS DISAPEARING FROM THE GROUP

[MJanghorbanGWV9X]

I have this unit type that is a group and I have it copied in multiple locations throughout my building. elements keep disappearing! as you can see from what I have attached, the top and bottom units are the same group, but the one at the bottoms is missing walls, kitchen and bathroom! the only way I can make elements to show again is to cut/paste. but when I do this, all my dimensions and annotation get deleted and I have to redo everything! this keeps happening, I cut/paste but after couple of days, thing will disappear again! I never had this issue with Revit 22. any solution? I believe this is Revit's glitch. 

 

[jvpantin2]

Check that all elements belong to the same level were the group was created, otherwise some issues will occur, like missing or misfunction objects.

[MJanghorbanGWV9X]

yes, that's what keeps happening. I created the groups on level one, but on levels above they are going crazy! I'm assuming this is a coding issue and Autodesk needs to fix it? I never had this issue with the previous Revit versions. I'm using 2023 now. 

[MJanghorbanGWV9X]

yes, that's what keeps happening. I created the groups on level one, but on levels above they are going crazy! I'm assuming this is a coding issue and Autodesk needs to fix it? I never had this issue with the previous Revit versions. I'm using 2023 now. 

[jvpantin2]

What I meant was that all members of a group must belong to same level, and this must be the level where the group were created, otherwise there will be issues. 

As example of said try this: group a hosted element without its host, or a ceiling-hosted element and then place another group instance elsewhere with no new host or changing ceiling height.

It is not a coding issue, it has to be with model coherence, or the fact that a group only handle its original level constraints, and between host/hosted elements only if both are members of the same group. 

[MJanghorbanGWV9X]

I don't have any hosted elements; everything is a generic model just to avoid issues. 

[jvpantin2]

Could you share the model to take a look?

[SteveKStafford]

I'd be suspicious of the mirroring...

[jvpantin2]

Groups can be mirrored with no problem, as most Revit elements do. Once again, the issues in groups are usually related to host/hosted element behavior, that's what need to be checked.

[MJanghorbanGWV9X]

unfortunately, I can't, it's our company's new development and it's confidential. 

[alex60]

That's the problem in your groups, if you use only generic models, they will fly when you copy up and when mirrored they get lost in the project. Try to use only families that could be 3d face in order to host them in the appropriate place.  

[TripleM-Dev.net]

Hi @MJanghorbanGWV9X,

If you select the second group (which has elements missing) does it states it has excluded elements?

I'm guessing some elements aren't level hosted and/or not hosted to the level of the group, or their host isn't in the group.

For instance if a door is placed in a wall and the door is in the group but the Wall isn't, then the door will be excluded on copying and/or mirroring the group, Unless there's a wall at the exact place where the group is being copied to.

Each hosted type will behave differently, always try to have the host and hosted element in the same group.

Like the families in the bathroom, if they are hosted to the floor and the floor isn't part of the group the families will be excluded on copying. Select one of the missing families in the original group and see what their host is.

For the missing walls I think it could only be base of top level mismatch with the group and/or attached base/top of the wall which element is then missing in the copy.

As far as walls I can only see the missing shaft walls in bottom left.

As you can't share the model or parts of it, select one of the toilet in the bathroom and post a screenshot of it's properties. (is it even part of the group?)

Ps. Also try to restore the excluded elements of the bottom group and see what warnings revit gives when they can't be restored.

- Michel

[MJanghorbanGWV9X]

I understand what you are saying but they are not excluded from the group. My kitchens and bathrooms are "Families" could that be the issue? because those are the ones keep missing.

[jvpantin2]

Look for excluded elements is pointless. As I said before, if not all group elements (if level-based) are hosted on same original's group level or host elements of group's member (if host-based) are not members of the group, automatically will be excluded of new group's instances. It's not related to Generic Model category, nor mirroring, nor code issue. Thus we can't take a look on the model @MJanghorbanGWV9X must check for us to help you issued family parameters, i.g. host type (level, wall, face, work plane) or behavior if them or their host are mirrored or level-changed. Better if checked alongside the group.

P.S.: What if only share the group as a separate model(save it as... from project browser)?

[MJanghorbanGWV9X]

I think I solved it; I had this light fixture extend the group all the way down beyond where my actual floor is. I fixed this, and things seem to be working fine. Fingers crossed!