Dimension String Witness Line Will not Remove Correctly

Dimension String Witness Line Will not Remove Correctly

DWarren_CPL
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Message 1 of 61

Dimension String Witness Line Will not Remove Correctly

DWarren_CPL
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So I have a project where my users are reporting that they cannot adjust the witness lines on a plan. I'll attach a Screencast to show the behavior in question, but in summary here's what's going on. This is turning into a blackhole for time for my users. Any idea what's going on?

 

Workflow---

1) dimension string in-place needs adjusting

2) pick the dimension string and activate the add/remove witness lines

3) Pick the core face to remove witness line from the dimension string

4) Revit inserts a 0" dimension

5) Escape out

6) Select the dimension string

7) Manually replace the dimension string on the object it's already pointing at

😎 Now the add/remove witness lines tool works as expected.

 

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Message 21 of 61

ToanDN
Consultant
Consultant

@DWarren_CPL wrote:

Thank you for the clarification. Here is what happens when I select one of the walls.

2020-01-20_14-21-54.png


Okay so the (2) 8' - 4 7/8" dimensions are pulled from that wall.  Are you trying to snap it to something else?

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Message 22 of 61

DWarren_CPL
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@barthbradley wrote:

I no longer understand what the issue is.  What are you trying to do in your Screencast?  


OK. Let's slow down so I can clarify, for everyone: 

We had one team member go through and place the dimensions. Later that same team member when to remove some of the widness lines to make some adjustments. That is when it was reported to me that the add/remove witness line tool wasn't behaving as expected. When they when to "remove" a witness line Revit added a 0" measurement. 

 

The only way it appears to get the witness lines to add/remove as expected, is to manually replace the witness line on it's original reference via the grip, then use the add/remove the witness lines tool. The question, what could cause Revit to add a 0" measurement to a dimension string instead of just removing a witness line?

 

Did that clarify? In my screencast, I try to remove the witness line with the add/remove tool and revit added a 0" measurement. Then I manually re-positioned the witness line with the grip. After that the line behaved as expected. I'm seeing this exact behavior on many existing dimension strings. Trying to save my project team the time of manually removing and re-dimensioning the entire floor plan. 

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Message 23 of 61

barthbradley
Consultant
Consultant

@DWarren_CPL wrote:

The question, what could cause Revit to add a 0" measurement to a dimension string instead of just removing a witness line?

 

 

Again: over- or under- lapping elements.  It has happened to me countless times. It is not a phenom. 

 

0.png

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Message 24 of 61

DWarren_CPL
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Advocate

OK, here is an additional clue. I manually reset the witness line to it's intended reference. Then we I selected the dimension string and activated the edit witness lines tool, you can see it highlights it's reference (as expected) but the other string (on the left) doesn't highlight a reference....

2020-01-20_14-32-46.png

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Message 25 of 61

ToanDN
Consultant
Consultant

@DWarren_CPL wrote:

@barthbradley wrote:

I no longer understand what the issue is.  What are you trying to do in your Screencast?  


OK. Let's slow down so I can clarify, for everyone: 

We had one team member go through and place the dimensions. Later that same team member when to remove some of the widness lines to make some adjustments. That is when it was reported to me that the add/remove witness line tool wasn't behaving as expected. When they when to "remove" a witness line Revit added a 0" measurement. 

 

The team member pulled the dimension from the wrong element occurring the same place as the wall.  He or she should have look at the tooltip when placing the dimension because it would tell him or her the exact witness element.

 

 

 

The only way it appears to get the witness lines to add/remove as expected, is to manually replace the witness line on it's original reference via the grip, then use the add/remove the witness lines tool. The question, what could cause Revit to add a 0" measurement to a dimension string instead of just removing a witness line?

Now, when they are trying to remove the witness, they are actually adding another witness, hence the new 0 dimension appends to the string.  It will be easier for you, him, or her, to just drag the old witness to a different element, then remove it, instead of TABBING the old location to find the correct one.

 

Did that clarify? In my screencast, I try to remove the witness line with the add/remove tool and revit added a 0" measurement. Then I manually re-positioned the witness line with the grip. After that the line behaved as expected. I'm seeing this exact behavior on many existing dimension strings. Trying to save my project team the time of manually removing and re-dimensioning the entire floor plan. 


 

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Message 26 of 61

DWarren_CPL
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Advocate

@MostafaElashmawy wrote:

I have a silly idea.

May be your wall have a very small layer at that location.

A layer with approximately 0 thickness. (may be a membrane layer)

Would you please share the wall layers.


Here are the wall layers. i thought there might be a split layer in the wall, that doesn't appear to be the case. 

2020-01-20_14-39-34.png

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Message 27 of 61

barthbradley
Consultant
Consultant

The purpose of the isolate wall and dim exercise was to determine if your dimensions were pulled from walls. Your screenshot confirmed that they were.    

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Message 28 of 61

barthbradley
Consultant
Consultant

...maybe, just maybe, you have 2 identical walls overlapping? 

 

I have 3 overlapping in the middle here:

 

01.png

 

 

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Message 29 of 61

MostafaElashmawy
Advisor
Advisor

Or may be you have an underlayed view that have similar walls at same location.

Annotation 2020-01-20 2154341.png

Mostafa Elashmawy
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Message 30 of 61

martijn_pater
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Perhaps the wall consists of an assembly or parts? This would result in overlapping lines that could give a 0 dimension...?

Message 31 of 61

DWarren_CPL
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Advocate

@ToanDN wrote:

@DWarren_CPL wrote:

@barthbradley wrote:

I no longer understand what the issue is.  What are you trying to do in your Screencast?  


OK. Let's slow down so I can clarify, for everyone: 

We had one team member go through and place the dimensions. Later that same team member when to remove some of the widness lines to make some adjustments. That is when it was reported to me that the add/remove witness line tool wasn't behaving as expected. When they when to "remove" a witness line Revit added a 0" measurement. 

 

The team member pulled the dimension from the wrong element occurring the same place as the wall.  He or she should have look at the tooltip when placing the dimension because it would tell him or her the exact witness element.

 

 

 

The only way it appears to get the witness lines to add/remove as expected, is to manually replace the witness line on it's original reference via the grip, then use the add/remove the witness lines tool. The question, what could cause Revit to add a 0" measurement to a dimension string instead of just removing a witness line?

Now, when they are trying to remove the witness, they are actually adding another witness, hence the new 0 dimension appends to the string.  It will be easier for you, him, or her, to just drag the old witness to a different element, then remove it, instead of TABBING the old location to find the correct one.

 

Did that clarify? In my screencast, I try to remove the witness line with the add/remove tool and revit added a 0" measurement. Then I manually re-positioned the witness line with the grip. After that the line behaved as expected. I'm seeing this exact behavior on many existing dimension strings. Trying to save my project team the time of manually removing and re-dimensioning the entire floor plan. 


 


Thank you for the response and your patience with my grammar in my last post. Sometimes communication is hard.

 

I understand what you're saying. You're saying the witness line is pointing to something in the same place as the intended reference (this could be a detail line, a grid line, a reference plane, etc). I have tried every way I can think of to find something either "under" or "above" the stud face. I cannot find anything. Here is a selection of one of the many walls in question... there is nothing there but the actual wall, and the dimension string. This is occurring all over the view not in this one location.

2020-01-20_14-44-24.png

 

Is it possible to have an object on another phase that is being picked up (I don't know if there is anther phase on this project, but at this point I'm just thinking outside the box). 

 

Or, is it possible that something like this might happen if the view was created from a "duplicate with detailing" workflow?

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Message 32 of 61

barthbradley
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Consultant

Any warnings associated with the wall?  

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Message 33 of 61

DWarren_CPL
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Advocate

@barthbradley wrote:

...maybe, just maybe, you have 2 identical walls overlapping? 

 

I have 3 overlapping in the middle here:

 

01.png

 

 


That's a really good idea and I have seen my users do this... unfortunately, if i select the wall with a R to L window this is what I get... just the one wall. I can feel my hair graying as I troubleshoot this.

this is me selecting L2Rthis is me selecting L2R

 

This is what is selected. This is occurring in several places on this view.This is what is selected. This is occurring in several places on this view.

 

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Message 34 of 61

DWarren_CPL
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Advocate

@MostafaElashmawy wrote:

Or may be you have an underlayed view that have similar walls at same location.

Annotation 2020-01-20 2154341.png


Here are the properties of the view.

2020-01-20_15-08-55.png

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Message 35 of 61

ToanDN
Consultant
Consultant

Witness elements must be visible for the dimensions to show.  If you select that wall, manually hide it and the dimension stays then it is pulled from something else but I thought we are already over that testing phase.  IMHO it is more productive to fix it, see the 10 second screencast (it took less than 10 second but I had to wait for a full 10 second or screencast will not accept it).

 

If you want to get to the bottom of it, share the file here.

 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/b0847829-ad9f-4990-906c-b4f08513ff4e

b0847829-ad9f-4990-906c-b4f08513ff4e,640,620

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Message 36 of 61

DWarren_CPL
Advocate
Advocate

@ToanDN wrote:

Witness elements must be visible for the dimensions to show.  If you select that wall, manually hide it and the dimension stays then it is pulled from something else but I thought we are already over that testing phase.  IMHO it is more productive to fix it, see the 10 second screencast (it took less than 10 second but I had to wait for a full 10 second or screencast will not accept it).

 

If you want to get to the bottom of it, share the file here.

 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/b0847829-ad9f-4990-906c-b4f08513ff4e

Give me a moment to pull a copy down from the cloud.

 

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Message 37 of 61

SteveKStafford
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Mentor

If this has been asked, sorry...I didn't see it.  What happens if you just click on the dimension line grip...like a button? It should jump to another reference of/within the wall (jumps from face to face to center ... repeat).


Steve Stafford
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Message 38 of 61

martijn_pater
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Advisor

With regards to assembly/parts remark. It's not parts anyway, the wall wraps nicely at those corners...


I can't for the life of me recall what this symbol was at the moment...? Anyone?symbol?symbol?

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Message 40 of 61

SteveKStafford
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Mentor

That symbol is Make Element Editable, the status of that icon indicates "you" are not the element borrower.


Steve Stafford
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