Curtain Wall "Can't Make Wall" error (edit Profile)

[Anonymous]

Hey, I have a two parter.

I'm using a Curtain wall on a project to help control the numerous changes in wall types. The curtainwall in question consists of the following wall types from top to bottom

7'-20" CMU

8" Split Face

4' CMU

1'4" Split Face

4'-8" CMU

In addition to stacking these wall types on top of eachother, we also need to taper the wall along it's full 300' Length. To do this we simply created a curtian wall with the above layers, Created the required families (12" CMU with a light materials, 12" CMU for a darker material) and set the Location Line to "Core Face: Exterior". No problem. Then we edited the profile of the wall to slant down a total of 8'-1" along the length of the wall. There's where trouble sets in.

We get a "Can't make wall" error The only option is to select Remove References at which point the top two panels (7'-20" CMU and 8" Split Face) change to a standard glazed system panel. If we change the panels back to the required wall type it they will change fine, but the minute we set the Location Line to Core Face: Exterior, we get the error again.

To make matters more confusing if we create a new wall type, and add an exterior finish to the wall type (ex. add a 1/4" Porcelain tile to the Exterior Side of the wall.....outside of the core boundary) then it works perfectly fine.

I'm trying to figure out what's causing this error. As a rule of thumb I try to not edit profile with my curtainwalls (or walls for that matter) whenever possible, but in this case I don't see another way.

I was ready to write it off as a Revit Error with the profile, but adding a material to the exterior of the Core works fine, so nwo I'm wondering if it's something wrong with my wall type? Why would Revit let it work with some wall types, but not others?

You can see  captures in various states below.

Thanks!

[Alfredo_Medina]

There are 2 things I don't understand from your post:

1) 7'-20" = What does 7'-20" mean? 8'-8"?

2) "...Created the required families (12" CMU with a light materials, 12" CMU for a darker material)" : What families are these, and what for?

[Anonymous]

Oops, meant to type 7'-2" That's the dimension of the top assembly of CMU block.

The wall is split up into alternating patters of CMU. From top to bottom

CMU

Split Face CMU

CMU

Split Face CMU

CMU

We're using two different wall types to show the difference between the two materials. In the sections that I posted the light gray is CMU, and the dark Gray  is the Split face.

[loboarch]

Why not use a stacked wall?  I gave that a try and it works fine.

[Anonymous]

Stacked walls are ok for some things, but we've found that they fall apart when you're doing a complicated project with multiple material types, especially on corners. They often fail to join and you end up spending a lot of time trying to reign those in. We find that Curtain walls with embedded wall types work much better, and you get less of those "fail to connect" issues.

I was able to narrow down what's happening, though I don't know why Revit is having an issue with this. I'm going to submit this as a glitch to Autodesk and see what they say.

The breakdown occurs when we edit the profile of wall and it affects a panel where there are no geometries on the exterior of the curtainwall "center line". Our tests show that this works fine with the given wall types as long as teh geometries break the curtain wall plane. Similarly, the wall type works fine if we add a layer of material to the wall that extends past that line. However in our case, we have the exterior face of the core lined up with the curtain wall centerline...not beyond, which causes it to break.

[Alfredo_Medina]

I tried the Edit Profile tool on the top of a curtain wall with multiple wall types. I did not have any issues. In my test, my walls did not have as many layers as you described, though, just simple walls, but ut least I did not see a relation between Edit Profile and a Curtain wall with wall types causing a problem.

[Anonymous]

The error happens when the panels that have an edited profile don't have geometries that go beyond the curtainwall "line".

I've been able to recreate this error with different wall types in seperate Revit files.

Try this

1. Make a Curtain Wall 20' tall

2. Create 3 evenly spaced Curtainwall Grids vertically @ 5' O.C.

3. Make the bottom and top panels 6" Cement walls (Core)

4. Make the middle two panels 6" CMU (Core) with 5/8" GYP on the exterior

5. Cut a section and set all panels to align "Core Face Exterior"

6. All of the panels should align with their exterior core lines. This means that the CMU and Cement should all line up from top to bottom. Your  middle panels should have 5/8" CYP extending beyond the concrete face

7. Go to elevation and edit the profile of your curtainwall. Drop the top line say....7.5 feet along the length of the wall. This should change the profile of the top two panels.

8. Finish the profile edit, and you should get the "can't make wall" error. Click delete instancs and go back to your section.

9. Your bottom two panes should be fine. The 3rd panel from the top (CMU with Stucco) should be fine because it has stucco extending beyond the curtainwall line. The top panel however should have changed to a generic curtainwall panel and be out of alignment from the rest of the wall. This is becuase that panel didn't have any geometries that extended past the curtianwall line.

I'm attaching numbered screens so you can see the steps.

[Alfredo_Medina]

I have tested this workflow, exactly as listed, and I did not have any problem editing the profile of the curtain wall.

[Anonymous]

I've been able to reproduce this error (not using this workflow) and think I know what might be causing the problem.

Changing the location line seems to cause problems with the profile editing. I am creating a curtain wall family with a tilt up panel and seem to be able to make the error frequently, but not in every case, when I change the location line from wall centreline to finish face exterior. 

I also seem to encounter the error everytime if I have used the two direction arrows to flip the wall orientation. I found if my panels are set to loc-line exterior, you have to switch them to wall centreline, flip the curtain wall orientation then switch the panels to loc-line interior. I tested this with a curtain wall with a custom profile and was able to avoid the errors that you seem to be getting too.

I don't know much about why curtain walls MUST be wall centreline, but I know that even with the centreline aligned with a roof, sometimes it will not attach, I think this behaviour is all related.. Anyone care to elaborate for me?

[Anonymous]

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