Check history of a Revit file.

[vunguyenDFBPJ]

The situation here is I received a Revit file - which had been created on another computer - and I want to check what has been done on that file. The main point is I want to check whether the model was manually drafted or copied-pasted from elsewhere. I did scorch the Internet to find a solution, mostly journal files, however, the file was not created on my computer so I do not have it journal files. Is anyone have any solution for these kinds of issues?

Thank you in advance!

[mphungDCHNW]

Hi,

When you mean "copied-pasted from elsewhere" do you mean as a DWG format ?

[ToanDN]

Ask the person who gave it to you.

[barthbradley]

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@vunguyenDFBPJ wrote:

 I want to check whether the model was manually drafted or copied-pasted from elsewhere. 

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What would you do with this information?  I mean, I presume it's a means to an end. What's the "end"?  

[vunguyenDFBPJ]

This is a training scenario, where we found some submittal Revit tests by trainees that were too good to be true, some parts look like they were copied from the example Revit file and edited. It's actually not a problem about technical but about integrity. I am working to find a solution to make sure this issue would not happen at mass training.

[vunguyenDFBPJ]

I meant I was thinking that the elements in that Revit file were not created, but copied from another Revit file.

For example, I want to check if the walls were created by the wall tool or just copied and pasted.

[barthbradley]

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@vunguyenDFBPJ wrote:
This is a training scenario, where we found some submittal Revit tests by trainees that were too good to be true, some parts look like they were copied from the example Revit file and edited. 

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Too good to be true???  Sounds to me like a person who got the job done.  

[ToanDN]

Well if they managed to find a wall that meets the assignment to copy them then kudo to them. Researching and inheritance are essential skills in practice.

[kh_jea]

Is the example file provided by the company? If yes, add a "Copywright" parameter to the elements. If it's copied to the new file, the parameter will be copied as well.

[HVAC-Novice]

couldn't they just remove the copyright parameter? 

I mean, if students are so inventive and crafty, all the better. that just means they understand Revit enough to come up with new efficient ways.  

OP: maybe explain why you think the way you suspect they did it is bad? Unless they used unauthorized files (like the teacher's copy) to achieve the assignment, it sounds like they found some shortcuts to get a great product. This is kind of what e try to do all day. If they really just researched other files to copy a wall, they probably spent more time and went more into depth than just doing it. so that isn't necessarily bad. 

[kh_jea]

They could, but I've had a case where the contractor claimed they had to make their own model, because supposedly ours wasn't good enough. They forgot to remove the Copyright parameter, so we immediatly knew they where lying. A student might not notice the parameter either and just copy elements.

[mhiserZFHXS]

I know this is an old thread, but educational integrity has come up in a few posts recently. I think all of this comes down to a few factors.

1) What was the intent of the assignment? If the intent was to learn how to set up the bones of a model, such as wall types, then yea, copy/pasting defeats the intent of the assignment

2) To what extent were elements suspected of being copied/pasted modified? Was the type just copy pasted and that's it, or did the student make modifications to the wall type as well, illustrating an understanding of how to truly make a new type.

3) How clear was the instructor on the intent of the assignment, as well as what the guidelines are? If they explicitly said it is all to be made from scratch, then that's that. If they said "build a model of this" without dictating what can or can't be used, then the student very well could have just been savvy and saved time. This is what's done in a real firm on pretty much every project.

[HVAC-Novice]

There was a thread where someone wanted to see or proof which template was used. I think your problem is somehow in that category. Saying, in normal professional work, it isn't really a needed feature to audit a project for how and who created what. Revit just doesn't have that function. I'm not aware of any software that has that function. 

If you are concerned, they use specifically one of your projects or families, then yes, hiding some easter eggs like parameters can help. But once you confront them about that, they know what to look for. 

If you are concerned, they use another freely available file, then is not much you can do to proof they did. If what they did is wrong depends on the assignment and the exact nature of copying. You can learn a LOT by using other families and projects and re-engineering and editing them.  Kind of what we professionals do with using manufacturer families. 

If they pay for school, and just flat out copy someone else's project without learning much... all they do is cheating themselves. Yes, they will get some certificate and may trick an employer in hiring them.  If the employer is not Revit-sophisticated, they may not realize how bad those employees are. , so there is some tangible damage done.

And, they ruin the reputation of that certificate or your school. 

Education will have to change to adapt to technology. Unless you force them to sit in a room with you the entire time, you won't be able to control what they do. Like all that (totally useless) essay writing in social science maybe has to go away and more tangible tasks have to be completed.  Maybe change the assignment so it is harder to just copy. Have them design a home to meet certain owner criteria, provide some art sketches to incorporate and so on. That way they need to get creative (and actually want to get creative!) and would have a hard time finding a ready solution on the Internet. I don't know your class, but maybe students are just not challenged doing mundane tasks. I know, some students just may not be good...   I know when i build an existing building model it is extremely boring and cruel for me since it is just easy. But doing the new design and inventing totally new methods and solving complex problems make me really happy. 

I once had to teach a class for HVAC mechanic trainees. Nothing is more frustrating than students that don't want to do any work except what they do in class (on paid time!) and have no interest to read anything at home. So I see your frustration. Focus on the students who actually want to learn and ask questions etc. Will make you much happier 🙂

[skatetownguide]

In this training scenario, we came across a remarkable discovery - certain submittal Revit tests submitted by trainees appeared remarkably flawless, almost too good to believe. Upon closer examination, it became apparent that certain sections bore an uncanny resemblance to excerpts from the example Revit file, albeit with some modifications. The issue at hand transcends technical matters and delves into the realm of integrity. Rest assured, diligent efforts are underway to devise a solution that guarantees the prevention of such occurrences during large-scale DDD codigo training sessions.

[mhiserZFHXS]

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@skatetownguide wrote:

In this training scenario, we came across a remarkable discovery - certain submittal Revit tests submitted by trainees appeared remarkably flawless, almost too good to believe. Upon closer examination, it became apparent that certain sections bore an uncanny resemblance to excerpts from the example Revit file, albeit with some modifications. The issue at hand transcends technical matters and delves into the realm of integrity. Rest assured, diligent efforts are underway to devise a solution that guarantees the prevention of such occurrences during large-scale tm training sessions.

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See my comment above. I was an educator before I went into architecture. Educational integrity is incredibly important, but so is learning real life skills to work more efficiently. As you work on future solutions, make sure you are considering what the learning objectives are, explicitly what should and shouldn't be allowed by students, and make sure those objectives and limitations are clearly explained to students.

If you want them to do everything from scratch, like building wall types and families, that needs to be clear. If the goal is to put CDs together or create a model of a building, and you don't explicitly tell them they can't reuse or modify existing elements, I don't think you can hold that against them. That's what's done in practice every day.

Once those objectives and limitations are determined, then you can figure out how you can put checks in place to make sure they are being followed as intended.

[defeatimpurities]

I understand that the topic of educational integrity has been discussed recently, and it can be analyzed based on several factors:

1. Assignment Intent: The purpose of the assignment plays a crucial role. If the assignment was designed to teach the process of creating a model from scratch, such as constructing different wall types, then copy/pasting would go against the intended learning objectives.

2. Degree of Modification: It is important to consider the extent to which the copied elements were modified. Did the student simply copy and paste without any modifications, or did they demonstrate an understanding by making meaningful changes to the wall type, showcasing their ability to create a new type?

3. Clarity of Instructions: The clarity of instructions provided by the instructor is significant. If the instructor explicitly stated that the assignment should be completed entirely from scratch, then copying would be in violation of the guidelines. However, if the instructions were more open-ended, such as "build a model of this," without specifying restrictions on the use of external resources, the student may have employed a time-saving strategy similar to what is done in professional firms. It is important to communicate these considerations clearly and use them to evaluate instances of copying or originality in academic work, while also keeping track of the contado de dias involved.

It is crucial to communicate these considerations clearly and use them to evaluate instances of copying or originality in academic work.