Can't lock constraints of array

[Anonymous]

Hey guys, how are you doing?

So, here's the issue I'm facing. I'm trying to create a family with a varying amount of voids in it, so I decided to use Array on those voids. The thing is, when I try to use the tool, revit tells me: "A group member's sketch or family is constrained to an element that is not a member of the group.  These constraints have been removed."

And it basically removes all the constrains to ref planes and ref level. My array is just loose, and Revit won't allow me to constrain it anywhere other than in itself.

Has someone ever faced a problem like this? I never had any issues with Array in the past.

Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

bump

[L.Maas]

Where is your array...wrong family? I opened your family but do not see any array.

[loboarch]

Arrays can be tricky especially when making an array of something that is constrained in some way. The Constraint conditions are difficult if not impossible to maintain as the item is arrayed. Sometimes when making an array of some kind of specific constrained geometry it is easier to make the arrayed element a nested family. That way the family itself can control the geometry and the constraint condition of the array is easier to manage as it is now only constraining position. Of course you have described an array of void elements which can not be loaded as a nested family.

I downloaded the attached family to see if I had any other suggestions, but I am not seeing any voids to array?  I just see a box with a few connectors on it. What in there is supposed to be arrayed?

[kgatzke]

---

@loboarch wrote:

 The Constraint conditions are difficult if not impossible to maintain as the item is arrayed.

---

That is such a cop out.  It's your software.  You wrote it!

I'm sorry I have to respond in this manner but if your programmers had done a halfway decent job of coding how arrays work then we and countless others wouldn't be spending countless hours knocking our heads against the desk trying to figure this crap out. Where's your QC?  Didn't you even test this before it went out?

Even nesting a family isn't a solution some times.  I'm at my wits end trying to get a simple panel array to work in a curtain wall panel.  I get all the way to end only to realize I can't control the thickness of panels, even in spite of nesting them, because Revit wants to start shifting them out of position front to back for no reason.  I started the array over from scratch, got the thickness working, and lo and behold, now the width starts stepping out!  Every time I try to fix it I get an error telling me I have to delete all the constraints. And then top that off, I realize that while EVERY generic family puts "front" towards the bottom in plan view, towards the user, the curtain wall families put the "front" (exterior) TOWARDS THE BACK!!!

 

Looking at this picture you can't even tell the shape handles are aligned to reference planes, only if I change any parameters the nested family turns orange I have to delete it.  You guys did such a bang-up job with arrays in AutoCAD so what's your excuse here?!

[ToanDN]

Can you share your family here?

[RDAOU]

Hey @kgatzke

i can understand your frustration with void arrays. Many share you the same feeling but it's neither Autodesk's fault nor @loboarch fault. He is actually one of the most helpful guys in A.Support.

Although there are more than a couple of solved threads discussing this topic in detail with screencasts and illustrations, if you share the REVIT family or project you are working on and we (not AUTODESK Support) would all be more than glad to help you or at least share with you our workflow to reach the desirable output 🙂

Cheers

[kgatzke]

I was looking for those threads when I came across Loboarch's statement and my critique is valid.  Here you have an employee of the company saying X is difficult or impossible when the company is responsible for why X is difficult or impossible.  I apologize to Mr. Hanson because I know he didn't write it but someone at Autodesk did.

As for the family I've overwritten the version were thickness didn't work so I don't have it anymore.  I've attached the current version where width doesn't work.  You can still see what I'm talking about when you try to control the width.  The panels start sliding from side to side.  

Maybe it's a problem between chair and keyboard at my end but it's a head scratcher trying to figure out in what way this would be a feature.

[PijPiwo]

Is this what you're looking for?

[PijPiwo]

After further testing, the previous family breaks under certain conditions. I think the trick is to constrain the midpoint of the panels instead of side. After some flexing, I think the width parameter works as expected now, however there is still some problems with the panel height parameter which I didn’t look at.

[Alfredo_Medina]

---

---

@kgatzke wrote...

I'm sorry I have to respond in this manner but if your programmers had done a halfway decent job of coding how arrays work then we and countless others wouldn't be spending countless hours knocking our heads against the desk trying to figure this crap out. Where's your QC?  Didn't you even test this before it went out?

---

I totally disagree with your statement that there is a bug in the software about arrays. Families is a very broad topic, full of rules, details, and techniques. As many other things in life, it takes time and practice to master something. Nobody learns to play the guitar in one day or two, and nobody learns a language in a week or two, correct? 

[ToanDN]

Edit: I think it is not done.  Panel Height changes and the array will breaks.  Same assessment as @PijPiwo

Maybe adaptive families are needed for this.

Try this one.

[ToanDN]

Okay I think this one will do.

[kgatzke]

---

@PijPiwo wrote:

 I think the trick is to constrain the midpoint of the panels instead of side. 

---

Sadly that's where I started but placing the origin at the center puts the origin of a texture at the center which doesn't work for us.  The fact that I discovered too late about how the curtain wall panel family is visually reversed from all the other families means that now some of my textures are reversed. 

[kgatzke]

---

@Alfredo_Medina wrote:

---

---

@kgatzke wrote...

I'm sorry I have to respond in this manner but if your programmers had done a halfway decent job of coding how arrays work then we and countless others wouldn't be spending countless hours knocking our heads against the desk trying to figure this crap out. Where's your QC?  Didn't you even test this before it went out?

---

I totally disagree with your statement that there is a bug in the software about arrays. Families is a very broad topic, full of rules, details, and techniques. As many other things in life, it takes time and practice to master something. Nobody learns to play the guitar in one day or two, and nobody learns a language in a week or two, correct? 

---

I stand by my statement.  If parts of an array sliding in directions perpendicular to the direction the array expands is not a bug then you have to explain what the value of this behavior is because it makes no sense to me.

[kgatzke]

Of course its not done, @PijPiwo and @ToanDN, because no matter what axis I could get this array to behave correctly on resulted in failure (constraints not satisfied, lateral shifting, etc.) on the one of the other two axes.  I'll give your two uploads a look and see how they behave.

[ToanDN]

@kgatzke

This one I checked and it flexed okay when changed Height, Panel Height, Width.

[kgatzke]

Your earlier upload worked as required and the video was very helpful since it showed me what had to be constrained to what.  I forgot about the spacing reference plane which I should have remembered since I've built a couple ladders in Revit.  They were easy by comparison since the height and depth of the rungs were fixed and only their length needed to change.

One thing you missed, the array number needed to be set to Panel Number, not Panel Integer. Without all those if/then statements the family tries to create a remainder panel of 0" height when then total array height is a whole number of feet.

Thanks.

[ToanDN]

---

@kgatzke wrote:

One thing you missed, the array number needed to be set to Panel Number, not Panel Integer. Without all those if/then statements the family tries to create a remainder panel of 0" height when then total array height is a whole number of feet.

Thanks.

---

@kgatzke  I realized that 🙂 and fixed it in the latest file I post a few minutes earlier.

[Alfredo_Medina]

---

@kgatzke wrote:

...I stand by my statement.  If parts of an array sliding in directions perpendicular to the direction the array expands is not a bug then you have to explain what the value of this behavior is because it makes no sense to me.

---

Arrays work, and there is no bug. There are just some steps that work and some others that don't work. Please post a picture of the desired result (I can't open your family of cabinets. I don't use 2017). Please post an image and I'll show you how I would do it.