Approaching 2D Conceptual Site Layouts

[payingtoomuch]

May not be the place to get answers to this but I'm interested in how others might approach.

I need to generate some relatively quick to scale site concepts and even though I'm working in Revit, the more I think about it, I believe it makes the most sense to sketch these out in 2D.

So, my original idea was to just import some 2D site info (some of it already sketched on)> scale it and draw on top some detail line (and/ or model line) rectangles and I thought this would be easy but turning out to be more complicated than I thought it would be in revit.

So, recognizing that I very quickly need to get into dimensioned footprints and area calculations I started drawing trying to come up with a solution.

I started heading down this path of creating named groups for the ml/ dline individual footprints, and then realized I also needed areas and that it appears that the best way to get those areas is by using fills.

Since I'm ultimately going to need to present these ideas, I thought ok, that can work and is a good thing because now I'll have some graphically colored plan versions.

Therefor I created some fills that I sketched over my 2D model/ detail line linework that were my original footprint sketches that I had already created earlier.

But now I have all this potential for separate entities within these individual footprint groups I want to create.

Then there is also that within the group I think it would be a good thing to have model lines for the building footprints in addition to the fill boundaries so that I can see what I have from view to view since I'm working out of a separate "working view" for my site plan. That way, it gives me the option to copy the fills only to any new views created.

Since these will be named groups of specific dimensions there really isn't a need to resize the group per se, but it would be ideal to be able to copy the group> rename it> and resize it.

Planning on having the dimensions visible for a quick visual but, for graphic purposes I need to consider how I can quickly turn on and off the dims.... except for the fact that this may not be needed since the dimensions will only show up in my working model anyway.

If I were doing this in cad I know exactly how I would approach. Questioning whether it even makes sense to generate these concepts in revit.

This is what I know.

• I want to work with named groups for this.
• I want to be able to see as much info as I can that are contained within the groups in multiple views without needing to copy/ paste, so that means I need to draw the footprints with model lines.
• Ideally have the colored fills be visible in all views (I know there are model patterns but haven't figured out a way yet to assign a colored model fill to a 2D rectangle)
• Create all of the above with the least amount of redundancy and number of steps.

Ideally this would be the process.

• Draw a "model line" rectangle of x dimensions that you can select as a rectangle rather than individual entities.
• Apply a solid fill to that rectangle that can ideally be seen in multiple views.
• Delete the original model line boundary and let the solid fill and it's boundary act like and be visible like the original model line rectangle.
• Turn the filled region into a named group
• Manipulate the dimensions of the Filled region groups so that I can quickly generate new named groups of different proportions.
• Be able to select the new named group fill region to get the area without ungrouping it first.
• Be able to manipulate a particular colored group such that it can become a new named group without ungrouping it.
• Planning on dimensioning the group and also having a tag indicating the area inside the group as well.

Probably doesn't appear so but I really don't want to make this complicated. Just trying to come up with a way to work effectively with laying out and making changes to some footprint studies on sites for this model and going forward.

Apologies for the randomness of the thoughts/ questions.

Anyone have any insight as to how they would approach?

[L.Maas]

As mentioned in an earlier post, Revit makes a big distinction between 2D and 3D elements.

2D elements are only visible in the view you created them in.

You indeed have detail patterns and model patterns. However the difference between those two is that detail patterns will size with set scale and model patterns will not size with scale. So model pattern are often used for things like tiles (e.g pattern of fixed size 600 mm square).

I have approached these things in two different ways in the past.

First method

-Created some families with basic shapes (e.g. rectangle, round, trapezium, L-Shape)

Have parameters to control the dimensions and parameter to contain relevant data (e.g area/volume, name, department, color/material).

-Use those blocks to construct the concept layout

-Use an occasional in place family for odd shaped areas

Second method

-Use generic walls to create boundaries

-Use Rooms or Spaces to fill the areas

Rooms and spaces already have many parameters for relevant data and you can create color schemes

Also can be relative easy to further develop the project

[payingtoomuch]

Thanks L.Maas.

Right now I'm liking the idea of creating some basic lshaped and rectangular families approach. Will look into getting that set up. Sounds like I can build in a lot of flexibility for on the fly changes/ renaming etc.

[payingtoomuch]

So I set out to create some families along the lines of what L.Maas is suggesting above. Got the hang of it and was able to create some families with parameters I wanted and loaded the new families into my project.

Created "reference line" rectangle

Assigned Length, Width & Height Instance parameters

Assigned material instance parameter

Assigned name parameter

Assigned area parameter

Created the origin at the intersection of the two reference planes because I want to place at the corners of the sketched underlay and resize the new rectangle family with the grips.

Parameter Successes.

1. Name instance parameter working
2. Dimension instance parameters working
3. Able to see everything in various views as had hoped

Parameter Problems.

1. Area parameter I assigned always reads "0" no matter what size I make the rectangles.

Other Problems.

1. Can't see any of the materials I assign in 3D or in plan views. Was hoping these materials could be my "colors" for my keyed color individual building types.
2. Origin is as I had hoped and if I place it at an arbitrary point it places just fine.
3. But if I place the family at a fixed point (say the corner of a rectangle I drew previously with model lines), the family snaps but it changes size and ends up attaching itself to the linework. Have no idea why this would be.
4. There are 4 shape handles. When I grab the ones at top and right they work as expected. When I grab the ones at left and bottom they push/ pull the rectangle towards the top and bottom rather than left and right as you would expect. I suspect this has something to do with the reference planes being alongside those sides and that I'm dimensioning from the planes to the other edges. Originally had origin centered on the axis with "equal" constraints but liked the idea of inserting at the corner..... not sure if anything I can do to resolve this if I want to have the origin at a corner.

Related questions to help me decide whether to continue down this path.

1. Will there be a way to "automatically" display the "name" I assigned in the parameter to the object I created (like a label/ tag)?
2. Will there be a way to "automatically" display the dimensions I assign in the parameter to the object?
3. Will there be a way do display the "dimensions"

Etc. Trying to decide whether to bail and go back to figuring out a way to just use filled regions like I started the question with.

[L.Maas]

First consider uploading your family/families so we can see what you have so far.

Area Parameter: Create a formula in the family to calculate the area

Materials: If materials in family are ok (right color), then it probably has to do with that your view is in hidden line or wireframe mode.

If you make some shared parameters in your family you can make a tag for those.

Dimensions you normally will do like other objects in Revit, by using dimension tool.

(Note: Dimensions are 2D elements only visible in the view you create them)

Alternatively if you have shared parameters for you length and width you also could create a tag for them.

How the geometry behaves depends on how you have build them in the family editor

[ToanDN]

What about Conceptual Mass?

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2019/ENU/Revit-M...

[payingtoomuch]

LMaas-

Attached is my current family if you don't mind taking a look. I'd like to figure out a way to get this sorted out.

ToanDN-

Without knowing anything about the masses, that looks like it could work. I loaded the family and added a couple parameters successfully. Can't get mine to show the material/ color though.... must be a setting that I'm missing because I'm having the same issues with the family I created earlier per LMaas.

Also, can't figure out how you can get the name and area to display either..... is this "automatic"?

I know I'm pushing my luck but Is there a way to get dimensions (24x38) or something similar to list as well?

AND, With your solution how would this look in 2D? Meaning if the height parameter was set to "0"- It would be ideal if this could display as flat with the text on top of the top face. Looks promising, regardless, however for my needs.

[L.Maas]

You started your family based on a mass template (the type ToanDN proposed).

However you only draw the outline of the rectangle. In taht case you only have 4 lines and you will never see the color.

Also you made the family shared. In this case it is not necessary.

What you want to do is make the parameters you want to tag as "shared parameters" (family parameters can not be tagged).

What I did was created a shape out of the 4 lines and changed the parameters to shared parameters.

I made a tag for your family category (site). Added a formula for the area calculation.

Linked the color parameter to the geometry.

Placement of these families is little bit different than non-mass families which tend to jump around.

(you can fix this, but goes bit too far for now)

I made my family from a standard family template (generic). Result is almost the same. Placement might be bit easier

Study it and further develop it where necessary (project with both families and tags attached, Revit 2020).

Note: I am used to SI units, so the project template length dimensions is in mm

[ToanDN]

@L.Maas the mass I shown was from the OOTB mass library (screenshot in the previous post).  I didn't actually create the family.

[payingtoomuch]

Thanks LMaas & ToanDN for taking a look.

Just wanted to clear all this up.... yeah right.

For whatever reason (had some crashing going on with the families I was creating at the time) I ended up uploading the wrong family. Everytime I grab the handles that "go the wrong way" it causes a crash.

The "... Building Footprint" attachment is what I originally intended to upload. Was back and forth between masses and regular families so not exactly sure what I have here (Mass or Family).

So, based on your comments above LMaas, I remodeled the new family based on the OOTB> New Family> EnglishI> Generic Model Adaptive Template. Which unfortunately gives me similar results.

In the meantime I'll be thinking about and studying what you have already sent to try and figure out what I am doing wrong.

Thanks again for your interest/ help.

[payingtoomuch]

Attachments....

[payingtoomuch]

Small success! Was able to get the Color/ Material parameter I created to show up in plan. Yeehaa! But lol.... still not showing up in elevation or 3D. Will keep banging my head against the proverbial wall.

What I did/ realized. Needed to select the surfaces> Select my newly created (apparently...) material/ color parameter material type > reload and it showed up as expected AND I was able to use the drop down for additional options. The planets must have aligned.

[payingtoomuch]

On to getting the area to show up in the view!