Solved: Re: Adaptive Model - Crystals

KELSEY_BMU8K6 · ‎08-20-2024

Hello All!

I have been working on a model of crystal strands for a crystal installation for the past week and keep tripping up. I am no expert so any advice is greatly appreciated.

Initially I made a crystal with a hook, copied that element and arrayed it to the correct length. I made 5 separate families for all my lengths- which were (1) 5ft, (1) 6ft, (1) 7ft, (1) 8ft, (1) 9ft, (1) 10ft. Then brought each strand into a new family and arranged my light fixture. As I am sure all you Revit experts are aware this model became much much too large and therefore unusable.

I read article about reducing file size and found that grouping was a big problem- I grouped my crystal (for the two sides), and used the Array tool which can increase file size. I used the array tool for all my strands.

So back to the drawing board- I nested my crystals into a family to create the strand lengths, but then realized it would be really nice if I didn't have to place each strand type in the crystal installation model , but could instead just use parametric lengths to get the different sizes rather than 5 different families.

This is where I fell super deep into the rabbit hole. I tried to follow a tutorial from Balkan Architect where he made an adaptive chainlink model, but I couldn't finish because my crystal model was not adaptive and my brain couldn't figure out how to make it an adaptive model.

See photos of what I am trying to accomplish- it is fairly simple. I am truly looking for any suggestions for how I should go about this. This is for a crystal installation in a skylight.

barthbradley · ‎08-20-2024

Post the rfa you did that has just one crystal.

ToanDN · ‎08-20-2024

Nest one crystal in a blank curtain panel family. Create a curtain wall type with a fixed vertical spacing of one module and assign the crystal as the default panel, no millions. Draw a cyratin wall and change its height and see the crystal populate along the height. Copy and change height for less or more configurations.

KELSEY_BMU8K6 · ‎08-21-2024

Toan, I will absolutely explore that this morning! Thank you for your suggestion, let you know if I run into any issues.

Barth, I have attached the file that was my initial crystal. I did this by creating a blend of half of a gem saving it as a family, then created another family for the crystal hook. I closed out of those and opened a new family and loaded both the half gem and hook into the model. I then placed the two halves of the Gem blend together to create the full 3D Gem, and placed the hook.

If either of you have a suggestion as to how to get this shape without 2 halves let me know, my brain couldn't comprehend the entire gem as one blend, but maybe I should have used another tool.

barthbradley · ‎08-21-2024

This is excruciatingly small. 0' 0 21/64" diameter? That's a FONT size! Rule of thumb: don't model geometry that you couldn't see without reading glassing. 😉

KELSEY_BMU8K6 · ‎08-21-2024

HAHA! Absolutely~ realized the size when I tried the curtain wall tip this morning, and remodeled the gem to be an inch! I didn't use any reference plains or pay much attention to the size when modeling it initially, and it definitely caused me issues, many of which I probably didn't even realize.

ToanDN · ‎08-21-2024

If it is small like that then I would create the family with the actual shape only for Fine Detail level and use a simplified shape (cube or sphere) for Coarse / Medium Detail level. Otherwise you will see just blotches of black when you print or export PDF drawings at construction document scales.

barthbradley · ‎08-21-2024

It's still too small. What's the point of modeling something that small?

FWIW: I loaded your Gem Family into an Adaptive Family and hosted it to a Adaptive Point. Then I inserted that Gem/AP Family into another Adaptive Family and hosted an instance of it to a Node on a Divided Line. Then I used the Repeater tool to repeat the Gem/AP Family to all the other DL Nodes. The Divided Line is connected to and driven by 2 Adaptive Points. Nodes with Gem/AP Family are added/subtracted based on the Divided Line Length between AP #1 and AP#2.

https://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2025/ENU/?guid=GUID-A720D16F-4C5A-406C-979E-0C4C1095AC61

KELSEY_BMU8K6 · ‎08-21-2024

The reason I posted to this forum was because I was needing suggestions for a practical way to accomplish my design intention, and was out of ideas. I assumed I would have to start from scratch. I am not an expert and I understand that my first, second, or even third idea might not be the best way to approach modeling and that very fact is why I deferred this community!

Like I said before the purpose of this is to create a string of crystals that I can change into different lengths so my firm can visualize a custom crystal installation (this is not a light fixture, the crystal will be lit by a led strip above). Ideally the crystals would even get smaller towards the ends and larger towards the top, but I haven't even attempted that as I am not sure how to approach it.

See some images of the project attached, these crystal strands are made as curtain wall panels as suggested by Toan the images can start to give an impression of what I am trying to achieve.

I am open to your suggestions, and appreciate your time and attention. If the adaptive family is how I should proceed I will attempt that again.

barthbradley · ‎08-21-2024

I can't make out all the symmetrically arranged planar faces - or the itty-bitty eye hook -- of each individual crystal gem shown in those screenshots. Can you? Rhetorical question. I know you can't. So again I ask, why bother modeling all that geometry? You came here looking for a "practical way to accomplish [your] design intention". What is the practicality of modeling minutia so small that you can't see it?

KELSEY_BMU8K6 · ‎08-22-2024

Your tone is coming off aggressive, and I truly don't understand why instead of suggesting an alternative path you would rather just explain how idiotic I am for going about it this way. I understand you think what I did was the wrong approach, but I was/am not sure what other approach to take as I have explained.

I will seek support in my firm for further suggestions, I realize now I probably should have started there.

I appreciate both of your time

Thank you.

CT36801 · ‎08-22-2024

Maybe give Fusion 360 a try.

barthbradley · ‎08-22-2024

@KELSEY_BMU8K6 wrote:
I am not sure why your tone is so aggressive, and I truly don't understand why instead of suggesting an alternative path you would rather just explain how idiotic I am for going about it this way. I understand you think what I did was the wrong approach, but I was/am not sure what other approach to take as I have explained.

I will seek support in my firm for further suggestions, I realize now I probably should have started there.
I appreciate both of your time
Thank you.

You read a tone into my remarks that wasn't there. Sorry you did. Additionally, I gave you several tips. The most valuable one was bringing your attention to the fact that you are way, way over-modeling. It's a common newbie mistake. I've been there myself. Just because you can Zoom to Fit on something that is the size of a penny in Revit, doesn't mean you should model pennies. The rhetorical question I asked above was not frivolous. "Can you see it" is a good measure. If you can't see the element in the View that's on the Sheet that's printed onto the Paper, then it's over-modeled.

Reduce the overall construct to a very basic form. That's my tip. Less is more. If you want to visualize that simplified construct as a bunch of strands of tiny crystals, then use Materials and Appearance Assets.