2024.1 Update causes new Schema errors

[GlynnisVP]

There's been a lot of chatter about the Schema error that was landing in a post about What's New in 2024.1 so I took the good suggestion from @RobDraw  to start a new thread here.

What is a Schema?

I welcome other people's input on this, but from my perspective, a schema can be best thought of as a blob of Revit metadata, held in Extensible Storage workset, that has a unique GUID. This blob of data is most often used by 3rd party developers but is also used by Autodesk (or companies acquired by Autodesk). The structure of that data, per each GUID, needs to be the same. If a developer alters the data structure, then a new GUID is needed to avoid the error.

What causes a Schema error?

In order to experience a Schema error, you need to have two files (or a file with a linked file) that have the same schema GUID but with a different data structure. Whichever file is opened first 'wins' within the active Revit session. This makes solving these problems REALLY hard because the file that displays the error is not necessarily the file with the 'problem' schema. It's also why this problem seems to be squashed sometimes and then resurface later. If you only ever open one Revit file at a time within a session of Revit, you'll never see the error.

What's the New Problem

The new problem seems to relate to Revit files that are upgraded to 2024/2024.1. The 11 July Revit 2024.1 release notes show that in there were changes made to the API to try and fix an outstanding schema condition. It feels like that change may have created some new conditions. We have an open case with Autodesk on this issue.

There are three new Autodesk solutions that suggest that to avoid the problem you need to upgrade your pre-2024 files one at a time to avoid a crashes, deleted data, or the error dialog prompt.

• https://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2024/ENU/?guid=GUID-38030A32-0460-4A2A-92D8-B698C0B01161
• https://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2024/ENU/?guid=GUID-40B0224D-9925-449B-84D0-8241EA15849A
• https://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2024/ENU/?guid=GUID-A8A5E4FD-8671-4B00-B3E6-CB4707D80744

I am hopeful that these are just interim workarounds to a problem that will be fixed. We have not changed our Ideate Software schemas and yet our customers are experiencing this issue.

[HVAC-Novice]

Thanks for posting. That update didn't show up on "Autodesk Access" as available update. So, without your post, I wouldn't have checked in our subscription page. 

Applied update and knock on wood. 

I still will follow my practice of opening my recently saved file in a different session just to see if it still opens. And also will upgrade (downloaded) families in a separate session. I don't have the stomach to trust it just yet :-0)

[ic349]

We just tested the 2024.1.1 update to Revit.  We have Guardian and Enscape to every Revit user in our company.  2024.1.1 did not completely fix the issue.  Someone has already upgraded 19 projects to 2024 in ACC and I am kind of confused why.  😶

[parley.burnettMZ2ZR]

Thank you @harlan_brumm and @xuan_chen ! I want to echo the thanks from the others for the fix.

So far, it seems like the fix does prevent the issue from spreading further, but we are hearing from our users that they still continue to see the prompt and are having adverse effects afterwards on files that were upgraded with a previous version of 2024.

Does Autodesk intend to solve the remaining issues somehow or what should we as addin developers be telling our users? Anything we should be aware of as developers?

[george_kaline]

This is our experience as well. The release of 24.1.1 does state that it will prevent further schemas but will not fix prior issues created with 24 versions.

[HVAC-Novice]

I didn't expect the update to solve issues that happened before. Those you may want to work out with Autodesk support to see if anything can be recovered. But I sure hope it solves issues to appear from now on. 

Assuming users will use this thread to monitor/report if Schema issues re-appear, please make clear if this is a new issue (appeared after 2024.1.1 was applied) or an old one that originated from before that patch. 

I haven't experienced new issues. but I'm also diligent to convert old (downloaded) families in a separate session. I also still open a previously saved file in a separate session to see if it still opens. Obviously it isn't reasonable to ask us to always be that diligent. At some point I inadvertently will open an old family while a project is open and then it will upgrade that family in the same session while I have my project open  re-create the upgrading issues. 

[ic349]

This is what I got from Autodesk.

"I was discussing this issue with the schema conflicts.  With the 2024.1, there was an issue where if you hit continue loading, elements would be deleted.  And with 2024.1.1, this patch is to prevent the deletion of the elements, but not remove the schema that was introduce."

[robertas_suminskas2]

It started with the Revit 2024 version and it is painful. Doesn't matter if it a project or a family - same issue.

Is there any way I can delete or modify the schema? At the moment, it is the most annoying feature in Revit 2024. 

As a developer, I would say what was implemented doesn't work, and if they fix it,t it will be a temporary fix.

Revit must be rebuilt from scratch in the way Fusion 360 was done.

[Karol_Piroska]

you cannot do it yourself and there is no way for a user to be 100% certain that a file has no schema conflict. It has to be sent to Autodesk.

[HVAC-Novice]

Is there any movement on a new and final patch for this issue? My understanding is, 2024.1.1.  somewhat resolves the issue, but not entirely before a final patch.  It has been 2 months since 2024.1.1

[HVAC-Novice]

Looks like 2024.2 has been released. 

My old (pre R2024) self would have installed the new SP immediately. But now I wonder if I wait for the first one or two patches to that SP?

[mhiserZFHXS]

Yes it does. You're just looking at the overview, which are usually things that draw attention. Schema issues isn't exactly an eye-popper for most users. Have to look into the actual notes.

https://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2024/ENU/?guid=RevitReleaseNotes_2024updates_2024_2_html

This update addresses an extensible storage schema issue affecting addons and projects that are upgraded for Revit 2024. 2024.2 is compatible with the previous 2024.1.1 update and can be used together on project work.

[GaryOrrMBI]

Well this looks promising:

;/

-G

[GaryOrrMBI]

Then tried installing from a downloaded installer and received the all too familiar:

Looks like there's more work to do yet boys 'n' girls

-G

[ic349]

you should keep your Revit.MSI.  Primarily it should be in c:\autodesk\[xxx] or a network drive.  The local %tmp% is 'volatile' at best.  🙂

[randy_lmn]

I've never understood why this necessary install file from previous builds gets stored in the temp folder.   IT typically requests we clear this folder regularly to free up disk space.   And since the temp folder is filled with a mess of GUIDs in folder naming, it is difficult to figure out which one is the Autodesk Revit version until we receive the error to find that notoriously absent file.  And, I've run into users trying to point it to a different location too, and then it's game over at finding that location again.  Good call though on saving that file and putting it in a central and stable location if we ever need it again.

[GaryOrrMBI]

I didn't put it there... Autodesk did.
It was installed through Autodesk Access in this case to take a look at it before building a deployment.

Fortunately it isn't an issue for me. 1) We decided to skip this version for our production teams because it's been so problematic and 2) I can easily download the original installer and get past the issue if I choose to.

I was simply giving a heads up, this installer has that old issue that they seem to keep introducing, then have to fix when people start having problems installing it... and they've done this over and over and over again.

Happy Drafting folks
-G

[HVAC-Novice]

I usually download the file from our account to a local folder on C-drive. From there I run it as admin. 

Our IT for some reason blocked installation from "Desktop" and from a network drive it can be disrupted (and we only have 1 Mbit) 

For the ones that were able to install it: please report how it goes and what you experience over the next days/weeks. I have the feeling I rather wait a week and hear how it works.....

[Robertas_Suminskas]

I having same issue and I don't have any network at home apart from basic internet. This not a first time Autodesk messup with installation. 

I deleted revit 2024 because I wasn't able to update. Now I can't intall revit 2024 at all. Please Autodesk tell me how I can use revit 2024? Why I have to waste all day of my work to troubleshoot Autodesk problems and find a work around.

I have a lot project on 2024. 

This is unacceptable. Looks like Autodesk doesn't take responsibilities for quality check before publishing.

I just one thing can't understand. If updates a not working as should and we should avoid installing updated because there is big chance is corrupted so why we have to pay subcription?

[robertas_suminskas2]

The worst thing that they did is if installation fails, It doesn't clean properly and leave mess in hard drive. Also Autodesk even didn't develop tool clean application files. 

I am very ubset because I have to clean Autodesk mess from my PC and try again with antoher method.

[RSomppi]

Have you tried the Insatllation and Licensing forum?