Analysis Visualisation Framework still fails to print

[MattKincaid]

Has anyone at the factory had a chance to review the issue, linked below, that was submitted 2 years ago?

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-api-forum/problem-printing-revit-analysis-visualization-framewo...

I've confirmed this is still a problem in the latest release.  This problem is causing some serious headaches for our mutual customers.  It's frustrating to see such a poor response from Autodesk, especially given the efforts our company has gone to to document and report the issue.  The problem is hurting our sales, and probably hurting Autodesk's sales as well.  Please advise on what it will take to get someone at Autodesk to take this seriously.

Thanks.

[jeremytammik]

Dear Matt,

Thank you for your query and reopening this issue.

I am very sorry to hear that you have been waiting for feedback from Autodesk on this for so long, because the matter was closed two years ago as far as the factory is concerned.

Please refer to my last message in the thread that you refer to:

-----

After analysing in depth the issue REVIT-85289 [Analysis Visualization Framework Points are cropped when printed -- 11411965] that I raised for you, the development team now closed it as 'Cannot Reproduce' and say:

Closing as cannot reproduce, printing to XPS and multiple PDF drivers all resulted in OK plots using the latest build of Revit 2016 and the latest update of elum tools.

I hope that the issue is resolved from your point of view as well.

If not, I would suggest that we start a new case, a new discussion thread, a new reproducible sample and raise a new issue for it from scratch to avoid confusion.

Even just this thread alone has had a couple of unnecessary twists and turns and back and forth that we can hopefully avoid in future.

-----

I hope this clarifies.

Since you say that this is still a serious issue for you, I suggest you submit a new reproducible case for it and we reopen the discussion with the development team:

http://thebuildingcoder.typepad.com/blog/about-the-author.html#1b

Thank you!

Best regards,

Jeremy

[MattKincaid]

Thanks for the reply Jeremy.  I realized the ticket had been closed.  I guess I was just hoping the dev team had made some progress anyway. 

You can reproduce it using the steps listed in the original post.  I put an updated version below. I also included an annotated image, calling out some of the problems, as well as the PDF.  Note that you can also reproduce by printing to a physical plotter (PDF printing is not a requirement).

I could submit a different Revit file and some sample code, if that would be more palatable to the development team.  But I cannot imagine anything I could do to make it more simple to reproduce...

Let me know what you find.  Thanks!

Steps to reproduce

1. Download and install the latest ElumTools from the Exchange Store or from our website.
2. You can reproduce the problem without licensing the software, but we can provide a license key if desired.
3. Download the Autodesk sample file.
4. Open up the sample file.
5. Navigate to Floor Plans ---> 03 - Floor.
6. Click "View Results" on the ElumTools ribbon (the point-by-point results should be shown on screen).
7. Open the Sheet "A3-3rd Floor Plan"
8. Print the sheet using a size A0 sheet size (other sizes may work too).  Note you may have to repeat step 8 a few times in order to reproduce.  But it shouldn't be too hard...

Note that the above, detailed process is provided for convenience, and clarity.  But it could be summarized into the process below.  The factor is AVF.  Not a particular Revit file, nor a particular piece of code that displays the AVF points.

Simplified Steps to Reproduce

1. Find, or write, some code that shows the AVF points on the screen in Revit.

2. Run said code.

3. Print.

[MattKincaid]

Hi Jeremy,

Any word yet on whether the dev team might re-visit this problem?  Or do you suspect it will remain a "closed-issue" as far as the factory is concerned?  Just trying to make a decision on what to tell our marketing team, so they can plan.

Thanks!

[jeremytammik]

Dear Matt,

Thank you for your update.

To ensure fresh attention from the development team, I logged the new issue REVIT-130308 [Analysis Visualisation Framework still fails to print -- 14085888] with the development team for this on your behalf as it requires further exploration and possibly a modification to our software. Please make a note of this number for future reference.

You are welcome to request an update on the status of this issue or to provide additional information on it at any time quoting this change request number.

This issue is important to me. What can I do to help?

This issue needs to be assessed by our engineering team and prioritised against all other outstanding change requests. Any information that you can provide to influence this assessment will help. Please provide the following where possible:

• Impact on your application and/or your development.
• The number of users affected.
• The potential revenue impact to you.
• The potential revenue impact to Autodesk.
• Realistic timescale over which a fix would help you.
• In the case of a request for a new feature or a feature enhancement, please also provide detailed Use cases for the workflows that this change would address.

Best regards,

Jeremy

[MattKincaid]

Thanks for the update Jeremy and for submitting the ticket for us.  I think that's about all the help we need at this point and will wait for an update once the engineers can evaluate.  Here are the answers your additional questions in the meantime.  Let me know if anything needs clarification.

Q: Impact on your application and/or your development.

A: Huge!  Ball-parking,  I'd say half of the value of our application is from the renderings it produces.  The other half is its ability to give point-by-point illuminance values, as well as other lighting metrics beyond just illuminance.  If users can't print the point-by-points, due to problems with the AVF, the value is significantly reduced since it's harder for the user to present his work (presentation is  critical for many lighting design projects).

Q: The number of users affected.

A: It affects any Revit user who uses the Analysis Visualization Framework for any purpose (not just folks using our Addin).  I would suspect Autodesk is in a better position than I to estimate this number.  But it's certainly not a trivially number of users.

Q:The potential revenue impact to you.

A: Large

Q:The potential revenue impact to Autodesk.

A: This really is a question for Autodesk.  My guess is the potential revenue impact to Autodesk is smaller than it is to our company as a proportion of total revenue  (just b/c adsk is so big). But probably larger in terms of total dollars.

Q: Realistic timescale over which a fix would help you.

A: Of course, we'd like it as fast as possible.  But a fix at any time would still be quite helpful. 

[jeremytammik]

Dear Matt,

Thank you for your business case. I added it to the development ticket REVIT-130308 [Analysis Visualisation Framework still fails to print -- 14085888] for you.

Best regards,

Jeremy

[jeremytammik]

Dear Matt,

Thank you for your patience.

I have some good news for you:

The development team analysed the ticket REVIT-130308 [Analysis Visualisation Framework still fails to print -- 14085888] for you and say:

I have reproduced it in the dev version by printing AVF points created by API macro in attached Revit model AVF_Macro.rvt.

See attached video for steps to reproduce in recording reproduce4.23.mp4.

Assigning it to the printing team convert it to a problem report or new requirement issue or provide workaround.

If the defect turns out to be in AVF, please reassign to the AVF team.

It is likely to be a printing issue because the UI display is all right, but the printed pdf (or paper) looks different, cf. attached diff.png.

Unfortunately, this will require some more time and lots more patience; it is moving forward!

Best regards,

Jeremy

[MattKincaid]

Woo hoo.  Thanks a bunch Jeremy!

[matthew.ross.hdrinc]

Any updates to the status of this issue?

[jeremytammik]

I see three related issues:

• REVIT-85289 [Analysis Visualization Framework Points are cropped when printed -- 11411965] is closed as 'cannot reproduce'
• REVIT-130308 [Analysis Visualisation Framework still fails to print -- 14085888] is now closed as 'code fix needed'.
• REVIT-130843 [Analysis Visualisation Framework still fails to print -- 14085888] is classified as critical and still open and under development.

As things stand right now, the work required for REVIT-130843 will not be completed in time for the next upcoming major release of Revit, so it is scheduled for the one after that.

I added a comment to the issue to ask whether it can be moved forward so that it makes it into the upcoming major release instead of the one after it.

Best regards,

Jeremy

[MattKincaid]

Any updates on whether this will be addressed in the next major release of Revit?  I checked the October Preview Release and it still seems to be an issue.

Thanks.

[jeremytammik]

Dear Matt,

Thank you for your update, patience, perseverance, and checking in the preview release.

According to the information in the ticket REVIT-130308 [Analysis Visualisation Framework still fails to print -- 14085888], the issue was originally scheduled for correction in Revit 2020.

In order to fix it, a new development issue REVIT-130843 [Analysis Visualisation Framework still fails to print -- 14085888] was been created.

Unfortunately, the new issue is no longer scheduled for fixing in Revit 2020, but in the next major release.

I added a note to the developers asking whether it is still on track as planned and underlining its importance to you.

I hope and expect them to confirm that all is well and proceeding as planned.

Best regards,

Jeremy

[dhelling]

I am glad to hear someone talk about this issue.  I have ran into this issue a few times while dabbling with Analysis Display points.  The company I work for would like to use this more, but are hoping this issue to be fixed soon.  As others have mentioned, the points are fully visible in the Revit session but some points/values are masked when printing to PDF.  I can confirm that the attached issue has occurred while using Revit 2020.2.1.  Please see that inserted picture for today's example.  The PDF is on the left and Revit is on the right.  Fyi, I have tried a few different things.   I ran into this while printing from either the floor plan view or the sheet view.  Although I thought it is worth mentioning that when I moved the view on the sheet (say 1 inch) and print that sheet view, the masking issues not move with the view (essentially masking a different area 1 inch from the original location).  Also I was getting similar but different masking issues when printing with different "Raster Quality:" print settings.  I can contest that this is not always a consistent issue, but it is not acceptable for plan review.  Please let me know if Autodesk has solved this issue.  I and many others are very interested.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks,

Dan

[Scott_D_]

I'm in the same boat as dhelling.

I've just started using Elumtools and am experiencing the same things in 2018. It's a shame as the calculation engine and calculation process seem to be rather good.

The AVF is extremely unstable in general terms and printing drawings that actually have something on them other than a blank building layout is a challenge.

Currently pulling my hair out trying to document my design, it's taking as long to print the drawings as it did to perform the calculations - please fix. 😀

[MattKincaid]

Hi @jeremytammik,

Just doing my annual check in on this.  Any update on whether a fix will be included in Revit 2022?

Thanks!

[jeremy_tammik]

Dear Matt,

Thank you for your new update request on this issue via email to Caroline. For a more direct route, you can also simply update this thread to achieve the same result.

Ooops! Oh dear... I just went to post this answer to the forum and see that you did already update the thread in January 2021, and I missed that. Very sorry about that.

You inquired about the status of the issue REVIT-130308 [Analysis Visualisation Framework still fails to print -- 14085888]. It was analysed in depth, revealed a need for additional work, captured in a new ticket, and closed.

As I mentioned in answer to your last update request in November ‎2019, the new ticket number is REVIT-130843 [Analysis Visualisation Framework still fails to print -- 14085888].

The new ticket has been discussed several times since, but has not yet been completed, I'm afraid.

This issue is important to me. What can I do to help?

This issue needs to be assessed by our engineering team and prioritised against all other outstanding change requests. Any information that you can provide to influence this assessment will help. Please provide the following where possible:

• Impact on your application and/or your development.
• The number of users affected.
• The potential revenue impact to you.
• The potential revenue impact to Autodesk.
• Realistic timescale over which a fix would help you.
• In the case of a request for a new feature or a feature enhancement, please also provide detailed Use cases for the workflows that this change would address.

This information is extremely important. Our engineering team have limited resources, and so must focus their efforts on the highest impact items. We do understand that this will cause you delays and affect your development planning, and we appreciate your cooperation and patience.

Another thought that comes to mind: are you a member of the Revit Preview Release forum?

You might want to join that and the discussion about new features being worked on. That gives you a more direct access to the development team while they are working on the new version, and you can ensure that the feature you need is being worked on and performs as expected before the final customer release takes place. I wish I had mentioned that in January, when you asked about Revit 2022...

Best regards,

Jeremy

[jeremy_tammik]

Many thanks to Dan and Scott for their additional input on this. I added it to the development ticket REVIT-130843 [Analysis Visualisation Framework still fails to print -- 14085888] as well.

[MattKincaid]

Thanks for the update @jeremy_tammik .  I just noticed Caroline was listed as our contact person in the ADN portal.  I understood your reply on 11-06-2019 to mean this issue would be fixed in Revit 2021.  It was not.  So, I thought our ADN contact may be another avenue to get the latest information. 

I regularly get stuff like the quotes below in my inbox.  Just trying to make sure we’re able to provide correct information when such complaints arise.

“…completely unacceptable. My company pays for the software so that you work with Autodesk to resolve these issues.”

“Let me get this straight, you make an add-on product for Revit, and then blame Autodesk when your product doesn’t function correctly?”

“What do you think Autodesk is going to say? “Take it up with your add-on software supplier, our software functions fine for Revit.”

Sorry about mixing up the ticket numbers.  From the perspective of our mutual customers who cannot print properly, it’s all one issue.  Glad you were able to determine the correct ticket number, despite my error.

Happy to hear this issue is important to you.  I can’t think of any thing more you personally could do to help.  At this point, I think we need the Revit development team’s help.  I appreciate your efforts in helping get their attention. The questions you pasted were already asked and answered in this thread in April 2018.  The answers haven’t changed. 

I am on the Revit Preview Release forum.  Are you suggesting pasting this thread over to that forum?  I would gladly do so, if it would help.

[jeremy_tammik]

Thank you for the update. I added the gist of it to the development ticket to make the development team more aware of the situation.

About the Preview Forum: yes, I would suggest that you raise this issue from scratch there at a time of your convenience. January 2021 would have been a bit late to get it considered for the Revit 2022 release. You could raise it now to ensure it gets handled for the next major release. I was just notified that the April 2022 preview release was provided. You could raise the issue there and see what they say. 

Yes, sorry there is not much I can do beyond relaying messages back and forth between the inside and the outside worlds...