PowerMill alternatives

[Anonymous]

Hi!
The company (plastic injection mold maker) where I work is planning to switch from PowerMill to other software. Candidates are WorkNc, hyperMill and Siemens NX. I used WorkNc and NX a long time ago (> 10 years).
 If some of you have experience with any of them, I would like to get pros and cons about these softwares.

[Jonathan.Artiss-DSI]

Pretty sure this discussion would go against forum policy, but I could be wrong.

Either way, allow me to switch gears and redirect the discussion. 

Why are you choosing to switch from PowerMill? It looks like a lot of the work you have been doing on the forum is macro related, helping and building custom macros. 

Why lose all the work you have done in order to rebuild if even possible in another system? 

[Anonymous]

Personally, I don’t want to switch, but the new owners of the company think there may be a better and cheaper alternative. I didn’t want to break the the forum policy, I asked the question to have arguments in favor of PowerMill.

[Jonathan.Artiss-DSI]

I get it, good to clarify the meaning of the question. 

Maybe another question is what type of work you are doing? Where are you located? 

[Anonymous]

I work for a Hungarian plastic molding tool manufacturer, we work primarily for suppliers of automobiles manufacturers

[M_Hennig · Accepted solution]

Jonathan, Autodesk cannot fall asleep and assume every customer is here to stay. Software industry seems to be a very competitive business.  I am in touch will many mold shops in the midwest area, and can tell you this question comes up every time the yearly support bill comes sliding across the desk. I've often question this myself. It's a huge cost to be switching software, but if the payoff is in a few years it makes it all worthwhile. SPEED, SPEED, SPEED, when the other guys calculate toolpaths quicker, it makes the switch very tempting.

[Jonathan.Artiss-DSI · Accepted solution]

Mike, I completely agree with you and I don't feel that that is the case. I know they have a lot planned for the PowerMill and Fusion products and basically they want to be able to develop things that will, if it makes sense be input into both products. In order to do this, they will need to update the 20+ year old code that is currently in PowerMill which is what we see as speed improvements, but its actually a much bigger picture that is opening up. 

I'm not trying to spread false hope, this is what I am seeing, being told and honestly believe. 

[Anonymous]

My experience...

I had been using Powermill for over 10 years, I loved the software.. considered it the best on the market.

It had a few bugs over the years but the DELCAM guys were always quick to sort it out or find a work around.

Powermill 2018 and 2019 were the worst releases ever I had 18months of sheer hell, constant crashing, deep system bugs, inability for toolpaths to produce the toolpath they are supposed to.. in that 18 months I sent in more support tickets than the previous 10 years combined.  The software had become unreliable because of these constant issues, reinstatement of previously solved bugs and every new patch seemed to break as much as it fixed.

We have now moved to a different CAM system, where I don't have these issues.. only had to deal with the learning curve.  We still keep a couple of seats of powermill, at the moment, because of all our legacy projects.

I hated moving away from Powermill but I had no other choice, I just could not do my work with the software the way it is.. too slow and unreliable.  I hope Autodesk pull their finger out and do something or they will end up losing more customers.. it's too late for me as I am very happy with our new choice.

[Jonathan.Artiss-DSI]

Sorry to see you leave and move to other software alternatives. I am happy to hear that it is working for you and what you do, I am also happy to see you are still an active part of this public forum. 

I hope that one day in the future, it would make sense for a switch back to PowerMill. 

On a side note, I hope for many great things in future releases. We as a public voice have voiced our opinions on what we would like to see, and I hope these features will soon be developed. 

[cory_marty · Accepted solution]

Jonathan, I think that is most of Powermill's users biggest frustration is since Autodesk acquired Powermill, they dump their development on how to we make Fusion like Powermill? We all bought Powermill, not Fusion. We are paying a PREMIUM for Powermill features and development.  Powermill development shouldn't suffer and slow down development because that feature needs to be made for Fusion as well. And for that matter, if these developments are being made for both software's at the same time, the Powermill version isn't being devolved to it's fullest potential because it has to be dumbed down to work for Fusion. It seems that Powermill users are getting the short end of the stick for what we're paying for and Fusion users are coat-tailing on our Powermill subscription fees to pay for Fusion development.

[Jonathan.Artiss-DSI]

I still strongly feel that once they have the ancient code of PowerMill sorted and re-written, we will see some great things. Just like any other software that's been around for 20+ years, there will come a time that the code will need to be updated or it will cease to perform as expected. 

I remember the biggest gripe back when 2017 hit was that everything was slow, very slow. Users stuck with 2016 as a platform and wound't consider trying anything else until 2018 or even 2019 came out and they still said that things were slow. I know this first hand because I would speak with you guys and report your issues and gripes. Now we are seeing these speed increases that everyone has requested and we still aren't happy. 

The fancy new buttons and features will come my friends

[brian.dinola]

We have done quite a bit with PowerMill since the aquisition of Delcam, below is a list.  I encourage you to sign up for the upcoming advanced manufacturing summit where we will discuss our advanced manufacturing products including PowerMill.

https://www.autodesk.com/campaigns/advmfg-summit/overview

• PowerMill 2018
• New ribbon interface
• Dynamic machine control in a region
• Improved stock simulation
• Turning improvements
• Enhanced 2D programming
• Improved 3D offset finishing with additional toolpath in corners
• Surface based feedrates
• Blisk toolaxis mode
• PowerMill 2019
• New Vortex from Stock option (more efficient roughing toolpaths)
• New automatic tool tilting option for collision avoidance
• New machining setups
• New ViewMill thickness shading
• New Additive capabilities for DED
• Support for Autodesk Drive
• New side features for 2D machining
• Create features from selected surfaces
• New online help for easier learning
• Rib machining now in Premium & Ultimate (previously Ultimate only)
• Electrode machining now in Premium & Ultimate (previously Ultimate only)
• CAD model import included in all variants
• GUI improvements including 2^nd level tool tips, 40% faster form load times, ribbon accelerator keys
• PowerMill 2019.1
• New probe tool definition
• New surface probing strategy
• New interactive collision avoidance
• Enhanced setups
• New automatic toolaxis tilting option for collision avoidance
• Improved ability to import PowerMill projects into other projects
• Faster searching in tool database
• PowerMill 2019.2
• Faster toolpath calculations
• Faster toolpath simulation
• More accurate retract and reconfigure simulation and warnings
• New rotation anchor
• Improved automatic collision avoidance
• New automatic orientation vectors
• Safer arc output for 3+2 machining
•  
• PowerMill 2020.0
• Faster toolpaths with more multi-core improvements
• Faster (multi-threaded) leads & links
• Faster ViewMill simulation & verification
• New uphill corner finishing
• New model filleting
• Posts in the cloud (about to be EOL)
• Pattern turning
• PowerMill 2020.1
• Faster model filleting that works with all 3-axis strategies
• New model export options
• Faster collision checking/avoidance with smoother/better machine motion
• Multiple GUI improvements and 4K screen support
• Better quality 3D offset finishing toolpaths
• Better quality arc fitting in ConstantZ
• More robust cutter comp
• PowerMill 2020.2
• New PowerMill Viewer
• PowerMill 2021
• Faster toolpath calculation
• Faster stock model boundaries
• Faster project open times
• Faster collision checking/avoidance with smoother/better machine motion
• Better quality steep & shallow toolpaths
• Improved DED

[Jonathan.Artiss-DSI]

I think this is the list you should bring back to management @Anonymous 

If everything you have built to help automate your programming, and evidence that we continue to grow isn't enough to win them over, I'm not sure what else it would take. 

We have a great community here full of amazing users doing incredible things, no doubt there is something that everyone needs or wants that is different than everyone else's needs and wants. So let's keep sending in the requests for new features, bugs and change requests to make PowerMill even better than it is today. 

[Anonymous]

It's not that management isn't satisfied with Powermill, since they're not familiar with its capabilities in any real depth (nor are they any more aware of other competing softwares' capabilities).
What the current owner isn't pleased with is the Autodesk subscription model, because he wants a perpetual license instead, even if that means future upgrades are not included in the price like they are in a subscription.
According to his calculations and some price quotes, CAM software "should be free" from the third year (i.e. two years' worth of Autodesk subscriptions is the same as the price of some perpetual licenses).
That said, there won't be any changes this year because we won't have the extra capacity needed for training and customization.

[Anonymous]

We, the clients, no longer own the software.. we're just renting access to it.

Stop paying and you lose access to it completely.

Before the subscription model, if you stopped paying you at least had the software to keep and use but had no access to support or upgrades.

[M_Hennig]

Yes, and that sure does suck for those who spent tens of thousands of dollars many years ago and no longer "own" the software.

[stdpattern]

I have never been a fan of software as a service, or the subscription model, but I have resigned myself to it.  We used to pay maintenance, now we pay subscription, it is what it is.  There really was no option not to switch, the maintenance pricing was just going to keep increasing.

Looking back at the list Brian posted, I do realize that there have been some decent improvements.  The 2D machining features have been very helpful to me.

Steve

[clinton.perry]

Thanks to those of you contributing to this topic. It's great to hear feedback from our community of users (even if you're airing concerns) as it allows you to express your concerns and gives us the opportunity to find ways to fix them. 

I'd like to chip in re: the improvements made to PowerMill in recent years. As Brian kindly shared in the above post we have continued to focus on improving the core user experience of PowerMill. This has seen multiple speed ups and bug fixes that have had a BIG impact on program stability - with fewer crashes, better quality toolpaths, safer collision-checking and more - all of which should result in better outcomes for anyone using PowerMill. We regularly carry out performance checks to compare the speed and reliability of the latest release (currently 2021.0.2) with legacy versions - going back as far as 2016 (yep - we go back 6 full release cycles). During our last checks,  we determined that (for many of the most commonly used commands) PowerMill 2021 is faster than all 6 of these legacy releases. I'll be revealing more about this in the Advanced Manufacturing Summit (see details below).

We also use automated, anonymized CER (customer error reports) that are created in the event that PowerMill becomes unstable, to monitor performance and allow us to identify issues that need fixing. I thought it would be useful to provide some insights into the CER system to show how PowerMill reliability has improved. The attached image shows a snapshot in time and compares the crash rate for PowerMill 2021 with previous releases (2020, 2019, and 2018). We can't go back any further than this as the CER tool was only introduced when Delcam joined Autodesk in 2016.

The chart shows the percentage of PowerMill sessions that resulted in a premature crash. For PowerMill 2021, the chart covers a time period from the initial release date (13th May) until a few days ago - meaning a total of around 3 months. The figures for 2020, 2019, and 2018 have been normalized to provide the equivalent 3 month time period from when they were released (resulting in a fair comparison). As you can see, PowerMill 2021 has a significantly lower crash frequency than the other versions. 95% of users of 2021 have experienced zero crashes. Of the remainder, 3% of users have experienced 1 crash, 1.5% have experienced 2 - 4 crashes, and the remaining 0.5% of users have experienced 5 or more crashes. Compare these figures with the numbers for 2020, 2019, and 2018 and you'll see a considerable improvement in the stability and reliability.

So, PowerMill is faster and more reliable - but we know there's more to do and so are committed to working on improving PowerMill now and in the future. 

For those able to attend the Advanced Manufacturing Summit next week, I would invite you to register to attend using the link below:

https://www.autodesk.com/campaigns/advmfg-summit/overview

I would recommend coming along to the following session:

Title: What's New in Autodesk CAM Software
Date: 26th August
Time: 9am (PST), 12pm (EST), 5pm (BST)
Duration: 60mins (includes 10min Q&A)
Summary: This session provides a summary of the most recent enhancements included in Autodesk PowerMill and Autodesk Fusion 360 – specifically for CAM users. We’ll continue by covering some important licensing changes that will impact users of PowerMill, PowerShape, and PowerInspect meaning many will be able to access more technology at a lower subscription price. We’ll then switch gears and provide a preview of what’s coming in Fusion 360 (including some really new and exciting tech) and finish by sharing our vision for how Autodesk CAM software products will evolve in future. The session will include a live Q&A with members from the PowerMill and Fusion 360 teams.

One other teaser......for those raising concerns about the price of a PowerMill subscription, you should come along to this session as we'll be announcing some important licensing changes that will mean many PowerMill users will be able to access more technology at a lower price.

I look forward to seeing you there! 

[chrisYPL9Z]

@clinton.perry Does the summit plan to have actual updates on powermill rather than just show us how fusion is coming along? I understand the speed and stability improvements are helpful, but to see all the new toolpaths go to a software that I cannot use does not excite me about the future of powermill.

[clinton.perry]

@chrisYPL9Z  - the session won't go into great detail about plans for PowerMill 2022 (as these are still WIP). 

We will be sharing plans for Fusion 360 development during the summit. It's worth noting that many of these improvements will impact/benefit PowerMill users too. Why is this? Well, while you may not be using Fusion 360 now - it is worth noting that it uses much of the underlying source code that PowerMill is built upon. So any changes we make are likely to impact both products. I really like what @Jonathan.Artiss-DSI says above about PowerMill being around for 20+ years. In fact, PowerMill was born in June 1995 (more than 25 years ago) and has hundreds of thousands of lines of code.

The opportunity to use Fusion 360 as a development platform to re-imagine and modernize how PowerMill works, opens up some exciting opportunities for us to develop innovative functionality in addition to making incremental speed-ups. 

I'm fortunate to attend bi-weekly meetings with the PowerMill development teams - where we discuss current development activities. While I can't say too much here, I can reassure you that the team is actively working on new strategies to simplify the most commonly used toolpath types with the goal of making CAM programming parts easier and producing significantly better quality surface finishes. We'll be sharing more news later in the year (so watch this space). 

The ADV MFG summit will include a nice chunk of time for your Q&As - where we can tackle any other questions we aren't able to cover in the main presentation. I should also state that the whole ADV MFG summit is being recorded so you'll be able to watch this on catch-up at a time that works for you.

Thanks