HSM works upgrade

[john_newman]

I am considering upgrading my HSMWorks to the 5 axis version at some point in the future as I am considering buying a 5 axis machine.  Will a perpetual licence HSMworks be able to be upgraded after jan 2016

[john_newman]

I guess a related question is If I have a perpetual licence and I want to add a seat will I be able to add another perpetual licence?  My understanding is the cloud based programs are slightly different to the perpetual licence ones? 

Does this mean the perpetual versions are going to end up as the poor cousins of the cloud based systems when it comes to updating the software?

[CatsChaiTea]

Hi John,

I'm confirming which HSM Works product works on 5-axis machine so I can be sure to give you the right answer. 

Catherine

[CatsChaiTea]

Hi John

Our announced Perpetual License Changes will affect the following four CAM products; HSMWorks Professional, HSMWorks Premium, Inventor HSM and Inventor HSM Pro.   When we end the sale of new perpetual licenses for these four products on January 31, 2016, we will also end the sale of add seats and crossgrades from the 2.5 axis products to the 5 axis versions. 

If you own HSMWorks Pro you will no longer be able to add seats or crossgrade to HSMWorks Premium. 

If you own Inventor HSM you will no longer be able to add seats or crossgrade to Inventor HSM Pro. 

After January 31st, if you want to begin using a 5 axis CAM product, your options will be to start a Desktop Subscription for Inventor HSM or HSMWorks Premium.  Or switch to Fusion 360.

Our only cloud-based CAM offering is Fusion 360, and you are right, it is different.  Our announced Perpetual License Changes effective January 31, 2016 will not affect Fusion 360 users, because Fusion 360 is only available with a Subscription.

Here is a great page that explains our CAM offerings.  http://cam.autodesk.com

Hope this helps,

catwolfsf

[john_newman]

Well I am pissed!!! 

I have been recommending HSMworks to everyone I speek with about CAM and I will no longer be doing so. 

If I decide to move to 5 axis after the cutoff date I geuss I will have to shop around for other software.  Essentially you will be eliminating all the value I already have in the HSMworks Pro. 

If this is the way you treat your customers I am glad I am using solidworks rather than Inventor. 

[CatsChaiTea]

I appreciate your feedback.  We know this kind of transition can be very difficult.  We want to be transparent about the changes and provide time to adapt.  I hope we do not lose you as a customer.  We genuinely believe we must make this change to ensure we continue to provide our customers with relevant features as design in every industry is changing.  We are more connected to each other, working from multiple locations and on many types of devices.  This new way of working has to become evident in our products and in the way we do business with you.  Our shift to subscription based offerings is part of that strategy.  Please consider crossgrading to 5-axis before January 31st and keeping that license on a Maintenance Subscritpion.  That will create the least disruption for you during htis transition.

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

I have a question about this;

Why isn't it possible to get a refund for the price you paid to buy the software, and pay the subscription price for the time you have already used it?

So with totally random numbers;

You bought the product for $10,000

Used it for 2 years while being on maintenance subscription for $1,500 per year.

Your total investment would be $13.000. If you would have gone the subscription way you would have needed to pay $3,000 per year.

$13,000-$6,000 would be a $7,000 refund and one would be on the license type AutoDesk likes you to be.

The flexibility of switching between versions is back for the custommer and he is on the license AutoDesk wants and the bad bad perpetual license has gone, doesn't that make everybody happy?

Not a as a forced thing for everybody but I think for quite some people this would be a good solution to the "Problem".

[CatsChaiTea]

Hello Laurens,

Actually, something similar was considered, but we believe most customers with existing perpetual licenses will want to keep those licenses and use Maintenance Subscription to keep them current.  Therefore, we have used our resources in other ways instead of building a trade-in option that converts a perpetual license to a desktop subscription.  For example, we have introduced multi-year term options for Desktop Subscription.  Desktop Subscription customers are now able to use the same previous versions as customers with Maintenance Subscription.  And we are currently building a subscription option that will allow customers to share licenses among users. 

Thanks for your suggestion.

Catherine

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

Hello Catherine,

Personally I see al those things you have added to the subscription side as a reason to be willing to make the transition. Like in the thread stated you lock in perpetual license holders in their current software level. For a small company that in the case of CAM for example buys a 5-axis machine and now doesn't have the Pro version really does have a problem. He can't upgrade his perpetual license and needs to pay the normal subscription price for the Pro version subscription. So there is so much invested in the perpetual license while all the advantages that were thought to be in perpetual are now available in subscription as you just mentioned like the 

"we have introduced multi-year term options for Desktop Subscription.  Desktop Subscription customers are now able to use the same previous versions as customers with Maintenance Subscription.  And we are currently building a subscription option that will allow customers to share licenses among users."

So the user really is the one that is set up for failure this way. He can't upgrade for a reasonable price(Since he has to pay the subscription price and maintenance on his perpetual license) and has a massive amount of money invested in his perpetual license which he can't get back.

So the new license options might be better for small companys and start-ups the transition the way it is now is just planning on killing those small companies that want/need to grow.

I really hope a solution for this can be found.

Laurens

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

Any solutions for this?

[CatsChaiTea]

Hello Laurens,

The best solution is for current customers to use the notice we have given of our change to evaluate their future licensing needs and take action now if it is in their best interests.  Until Jan 31st next year customers of a product like HSMWorks Pro can determine if they will need 5-axis capabilities and take action to switch to HSMWorks Premium before the deadline.  If that option is not exercised, then when the time does come that they need 5-axis capabilities, we will likely have promotions or other methods to ease their switch to Desktop Subscription. 

Thanks,

catwolfsf

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

Hello Cat,

I understand what you are telling me here. But to be honest it really is not an option to buy in now for many. If you don't have machines with the capabilities there is no way you can afford to just buy the Premium in case you might in 5 years get a 5-axis machine. It's just not possible for a small company, they don't make profits of €50000 just to spend on what might happen int he future.

Even if there would be promotions at that time for the subscription you could still "Scrap" your perpetual license(Would mean throwing away !!€7500!! if this only concerned one license.) if you don't hire new people to use that new license while you use the new subscription license.

Like I said, it's not the fact that this transition is made that bothers me but the fact that we might be forced to buy software we can't afford now, or throw the current software away in some years and take the full loss of the acquisition price and go "rental" while the solution seems so simple to me.

[CatsChaiTea]

Laurens,

What is your own situation relative to this change?  How are you impacted?  I appreciate the case you are making for cusotmers using one of our tiered products.  I'll raise a question interally about crossgrading within a product family after we end the sale of new perpetual licenses.  Let me see where that conversation goes.  But how are you handling our change?

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

Well our company has one HSMWorks Premium license and one HSMWorks Professional license.

Because our company is still growing and working in the machining business, and therefor buying materials and tools months before we can send a bill, you can image that there is not really a massive bank account somewhere, since we need to finance all that and get return on that investment months later. So we can't upgrade that Professional license now if there isn't a actual need on the floor. Not being able to upgrade the Professional license could really become a problem when more new high tech 5+ axis machines will be bought but we will continue with 2 programmers(Which is what is going to happen). That would mean programming for all these machine's can only be done on 1 computer, which is impossible.

So this new model would have been great for us, not paying 20k(Premium was more expensive) up front but be flexible and go the subscription way(Wasn't possible for HSMWorks when we bought it.) But now we are on this perpetual license and can't change.

[CatsChaiTea]

Thanks for describing your situation.  Real-life examples help shape policy decisions.

[john_newman]

I am in a similar position In that I am currently making foundry tooling on a 3 axis router and am considering buying a 5 axis router at some point in the next few years.  I would likely  do all my programming with one seat as I will likely get rid of the 3 axis machine or delegate it to 2 1/2 axis work.  I am leary of buyig the 5 axis version of HSMworks as I have heard from a few sources that it is not yet a mature product.  I have been trying to do research on the 5 axis version but there is minimal information on the Autodesk or reseller websites.   I have heard there is work being done and there will be major upgrades coming soon but I don't have lots of money sitting around to upgrade and then pay a higher maintenance fee for software that I don't need right away and may not do what I need it to do when I do need it. 

How well do you find 5 axis works for you Laurens?  Are you doing 3+2 or full 5 axis? 

[Anonymous]

I have to admit to being a bit more than unhappy here. One of the premises of my blog was the idea that Autodesk is laying the ground work for conquest of the CADCAM world. The only way I can recommend Autodesk is through the permanent offering of new seats independent of the web or subscription models. There is no room in any of the shops I have contact with for rental software. We all want to own and permanent seats are the only way to go. As much as I truly love being here as a customer of less than one year and a staunch advocate of your products this idiotic insistence upon closing the door many of us want to walk through will come back to haunt you. You guys are doing so good in so many areas. I want to know what CPA dollar counting for today and the heck with tomorrow individual came up with this nonsense. It will fly just as well as cloud only for many of us. I dare say a large enough percentage of your existing and potential new customers will not go here and that in time you are going to have to return to reality. Fire the idiot CPA dude and get back to treating us like something of value and part of a working relationship. I am not nor am I going to be chattel for your amusement. Bean counters who live for today and people who live for stock value manipulations each quarter can be the death of anything. Why not try keeping us with superior products which will command our loyalty rather than extortion hmm? Choose, bean counters or users.

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

Please have a look over here at the topic on the CAM forum on this.

A serious discussion going on there started by this topic.

https://camforum.autodesk.com/index.php?topic=7292.0

To quote myself:

"

What amazes me is that they don't just make the price of perpetual a little higher and the cost of desktop subscription a little lower. Now it's about five years that would make perpetual cheaper. Everybody thinks in 5 years I definitely still need this. But if that would be 10 or 15 years, the ones that by contract can't switch or really don't want to can stay on their current form of license and in the future for new licenses.
Perpetual being cheaper after 10 or 15 years doesn't sound all that weird to me, I mean if you want a license with no expiration date, don't expect it to be cheap. And if they really want to do right, give a very serious discount on a perpetual license after you've been on subscription for more than 5, 10 and 15 years.


This will make much more people go towards desktop subscription I'm sure. Indeed not all but much much more will go that route, while keeping the perpetual for the rest available.

"

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

Any news on this?

[CatsChaiTea]

The suggestion of continuing to sell perpetual licenses, just at a higher price, isn't gaining traction internally.  However, there is interest in helping customers in situations like you or @john_newman get the full value of the perpetual licenses you already purchased by allowing some trade-in or crossgrade path when you need to move to the next level of features.  Nothing specific to say yet, but it is being considered.