Too slow render.. what to do?

Too slow render.. what to do?

Anonymous
Not applicable
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14 Replies
Message 1 of 15

Too slow render.. what to do?

Anonymous
Not applicable

Hi!

I have to render a scene in maya but in one night it rendered only 66 frame (too slow! I have to render 4000 frame).

I use maya software.

What advice/tricks have you to do a faster render?

 

 

Render Diagnostics says:

Speed/Memory Implications
-------------------------
- you have raytracing turned on. Keep in mind that raytracing is
inherently slow and the memory usage tends to be very large.
- you have quite a few file textures in use. You might want to consider
using texture file caching to reduce memory usage.
- ambientLightShape1 has raytrace shadows turned on. Raytrace shadows
can be expensive. Doing depth map shadows may be more economical, and
should be used unless transparent shadows are desired.
- directionalLightShape1 has raytrace shadows turned on. Raytrace shadows
can be expensive. Doing depth map shadows may be more economical, and
should be used unless transparent shadows are desired.
- it can be useful to run your scene through "maya -optimizeRender"
before rendering. This can help optimize the scene for rendering.

 

 

I tryed to use depth map shadow and it is faster than raytracing but in the rendered image there aren't the indirect shadows, why? What can I do for have them?

And what is maya -optimizeRender?

 

Thankyou all!

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Replies (14)
Message 2 of 15

J450NP13
Advisor
Advisor

More CPUs or use a render farm.

 

There is no quick trick to get frames rendered faster.  Besides dropping quality.

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Message 3 of 15

Anonymous
Not applicable

66 frames over night seems INSANELY slow, particularly for a Maya Software render, even by my standards.  Before I jumped to j450np13's suggestion of a render farm...which is costly and not terribly practical for a lot people, there's a few things I would look into first.  After all there's no sense forking out big bucks for a render farm if that's not where the problem is.

 

Without knowing your level of expertise or seeing the scene itself (or any stills), it's difficult to be specific, however there are a few general things you can look at...

 

First, the scene itself.  It goes without saying that the more "stuff" you have in a scene, the longer your renders will take.  If you have an extraordinary number of elements to your scene, you may wish to seperate them into different files to render seperately to composite together in post.  Likewise, if this is the case, you also may wish to look into things like "instanced geometry" and "referencing" you files.

 

Also, on the note of geometry, remember that high poly count meshes will also rack up that render time!  For myself at least, it's always tempting to try and do highly detailed models, however something I've learned (or trying to learn at least) is never do physical geometry where textures, bump maps, etc., will do the trick.  Remember, you really only need as much detail as the camera will see.  BTW, that tends to go for things like nurbs as well...never use nurbs were basic polys will work.  Again nurbs can really rack up those render times.

 

Along with large scenes an high poly counts, it's been my experience that bad geometry can absolutely wreak havoc with your render times.  Again I don't know your level of expertise here, however when I was a novice, I was really guilty about this...problems with tesselation for example can slow down your renders big time.

 

Along with bad geometry, assuming you haven't already you may wish to do some clean up on your scene as well.  Try "optimize scene" to get rid of any unused items like extra shaders, render nodes, yadda, yadda, yadda.  Do make sure you have a back up of your file as this action in NOT undoable.

 

While I hate to say it, you also may wish to consider your hardware too (again if you haven't already).  Maya and rendering in general can be incredibly resource intensive...if  you're trying to run your renders on an older Celeron or something, you can expect problems.  Likewise, you will also want to make sure your system is running in peek condition...don't have a ton of crap running in the background (I usually have my virus scanner loaded and that's about it), make sure you defrag your harddrives, make sure you clean any crap out of your registry (assuming you're using Windows), etc., etc..

 

As you've already discovered, yes, raytraced shadows can also eat up that render time.  For what you're averaging there, you may wish to look at DM shadows instead and perhaps try an ambiant occlusion pass instead to bring the shadow detail back.  Again here, animation isn't about trying to get EVERYTHING in one pass,,,it's about multiple passes and compositing your work in post production (After Effects, Premiere, Final Cut Pro, etc).

 

Yes, renders can be painfully slow...tis a lot like watching paint dry, however only 66 frames during an overnight render suggests there's something wrong with the scene itself.  I'm certainly no expert by the longest stretch of the imagination and if you can provide a bit more info on your scene/project, hopefully someone else can give you a better push in the right direction...this is just intended to give you a few things to look for.

 

Good luck!

Message 4 of 15

J450NP13
Advisor
Advisor
I've rendered animations that took 45 minutes a frame. There was nothing wrong with my scene....it was optimized from the start in the workflow...of it is a high res photoreal scene...it is what it is.
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Message 5 of 15

Anonymous
Not applicable

"I've rendered animations that took 45 minutes a frame. There was nothing wrong with my scene....it was optimized from the start in the workflow...of it is a high res photoreal scene...it is what it is."

 
My first question is, why would you assume that everyone asking questions on a forum has such expertise as you to be able to get it right from the start?  Without futher info, why would you even assume the OP is even trying to do something "photoreal" here?  Is that not fairly presumptious?

 

I have in fact rendered photo real scenes as well...I did a photo realistic still life of a diner scene as something of a tribute to Ralph Goings and the limited DOF in mental ray was a REAL time killer (and ultimately unnecessary as I could have achieved the same results in Photoshop for that single still).  That said however, that also shouldn't suggest that EVERY person rendering EVERY scene should have such issues...I'm not sure I understand why you would make such an assumption.  The fact is that I've also rendered some very large scenes (comparatively speaking) using Maya Software where the render times were at least manageable, even on the 3 PC's I have here at home.

 

Perhaps you know the OP here and are familiar with the file/project he/she is working on...for all I know the OP could be an old vet at this and you and he (she) could be working on this project together for you to be intimately familiar with the work.  That said, I was simply responding to the initial post with very little info to guide my suggestions, so I could very well be barking up the wrong tree here,. As I stated in my reply however, 66 frames for an over-night render in Maya Software seems INSANELY slow....on my system here at home, I'm knocking out 900+ frames a night, using Mental Ray along with AO and depth layers for my test renders (although the AO layers do seem to be giving me a problem time-wise).  From the little information provided, from my perspective at least, one could easily assume that the OP could be something of a novice and that there could very well be other problems causing the slow renders (only a few of which I covered).  Should that be the case, one might think the more practical solution would be to fix the problem(s) FIRST rather than jump to rendering farming as the immediate or only solution.

 

On that note, at the risk of being horribly blunt, I do have to wonder where you live that you have such easy access to affordable rendering farms...?  I can't speak for anyone else, but here in Northern Ohio, such options are indeed QUITE limited.  In fact at the college I attend, for a few years now I've been suggesting to the powers that be that they incorporate such options.  That school has 4 iLabs and 7 PC labs...hundreds of computers just begging to be tapped...so with a bit of finagling, students could essentially have the power of Pixar for their work.  The school has yet to incorporate such options...they do have Backburner installed in -2- of the iLabs, but the professors don't have access to the network servers or the Unix knowledge to actually get it working...trust me...we've tried...repeatedly.

 

In lieu of such options, the only thing (that I know of at least) that a person can do is simply "send it out".  The problem there of course is that as far as I know, that can be VERY costly...assuming you can find such resources to begin with...and for students, or even someone such as myself who's just noodling around for his own ****s and giggles, that's just NOT an option.  With that little Trek project I'm working on...I'm not making ANY money on that at all...it's NOT a project being done for a client or anything else, other than my own enjoyment and learning experience.  Why would you expect a person in such a situation to fork out thousands of dollars for something like this?  Render farming works great if you're already a professional in the industry where you can charge such expenses to the client (seriously - "get Mr. Spielberg on the phone and let him know this is gonna cost an extra 20 grand..."), however for independent artists and particularly for students, it's a VERY different thing entirely.  Yea, I guess you could just go out and buy 20 - 30 refurbished i7 systems (and a couple of wi-fi routers), all with high end graphics cards and just set them up in your basement, but wow...even with my technical expertise with the hardware, personally my credit line just isn't THAT flexible.  Perspective is a wonderful thing....

 

I'm honestly not trying to be rude here, however to me it seems that instead of analyzing the problem and looking for practical solutions ("hey...try adjusting xxxx in your Mental Ray settings...") you seem to just jump to the assumption that everyone is already an experienced professional, that all their work is already suitable for rendering, that everyone has access to unlimited resources and that wow...everyone has money dripping out their butt. Render farming is an INCREDIBLE resource for those who have access to it and/or those who can afford it (again mainly established pros already in the industry), however not all of us are so lucky.  What's more, as already stated, it doesn't address other issues that could be a significant factor...I won't speak for others, but I would never be so bold as to assume that everyone asking questions on a forum such as this is already a professional.  If that were the case, I doubt they'd be asking the questions in the first place.  As such, if we can assume a certainly level of novice experience here, then it seems to me that there could very well be other factors to consider.  I don't claim to be an expert by the longest stretch of the imagination, however one thing I do know about Maya is that there are many things that can kick the crap out of your render times, that farming alone just won't fix.  Again a novice could be just as likely to have some seriously botched geometry.  In my earliest days of modeling, I actually had one model that had ungodly amounts of extra geometry...for one thing, my extrude tool was set up wrong and I was getting TENS OF MILLIONS of faces every time I used it.  This had a truly MASSIVE affect on the render times, because Maya had to work thru all that extra geometry.  After I gained some experience, I later went back and did a similar model, using better techniques and although the new model had CONSIDERABLY more detail, the render time was only the slightest FRACTION of what it was with the first model. Should something like that be the case, then I'm sorry dude but no, render farming simply isn't the best solution at all.

 

In any case, without more info at least, I have to stand by my original comments...I would look for problems with the file and scene and fix those first BEFORE forking out the bread to have it farmed. That of course, is just my own personal opinion.

Message 6 of 15

J450NP13
Advisor
Advisor

Sorry I couldn't read your entire post.

 

I live in the Metro-Detroit area.  I work for a large construction company.  I use a render farm for my work.  Obviously...when you are doing animations that need to be high quality you can't use your home machine or it would take forever.   

 

When I first got into 3D years ago I too was a little deterred by the rendering times.  The only way to make quick animations was to dial the details down a lot....and model low poly scenes....and have the best hardware...even if it meant saving and saving and sacrificing to get the best hardware.

 

If the people that made Avatar didn't use a render farm and just used the 16 rigs they had ....it would have taken 16 years to render.

Message 7 of 15

J450NP13
Advisor
Advisor

I highly doubt the slow render time is because of his/her scene...it is most likely in the render settings...even in software render it can be very long render times with raytracing...the amount of lights.. etc

 

It's a matter of people wanting to make an animation not realizing that even "non-photoreal" renderings can take a bit to render...especially if you have reflective material with refractions and specular going on in the scene....then there's the shadows...

 

9 out of 10 times it is because of the render settings...and if those settings are what the guy/gal wants....it can be expensive whether it is time...polys...or res...or even dollars.

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Message 8 of 15

dgorsman
Consultant
Consultant

Try not to get discouraged - they both have good points.  You need to optimize your scene (if you remember the very old games, there's a reason why the grunts all had masks and/or helmets - keeps things simple!), ensure your hardware is up to snuff (cores, RAM, power supply, sleep settings), *and* accept that even then it will take some time.  I've done a 7-8 minute animation (with other software, mind you) with relatively simple settings and that took ~ 1 minute per frame.

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 9 of 15

Anonymous
Not applicable

I honestly don't understand why you would believe EVERYONE would be trying to do something as significatly complex as Avatar (great flick though). If I were actually trying to do something THAT complex as a feature on THAT level, I'd certainly be using a render farm too...not to mention I'd have an entire staff of modeling teams, texturing teams, rigging teams, lighting teams, animation teams....and of course the finacial backing of someone like 20th Century Fox.  To me it seems you have over-looked the fact that Avatar was a HUGE, high budget production (237 million if I'm not mistaken), not to mention that it took over 10 years to make.  James Cameron didn't create that movie all by himself...at one point, Weta Digital alone is rumored to have had over 900 people working on the project.  Now call me crazy or just exceptionally naive, however there seems to be just a wee bit of difference between that and someone working (and/or learning) all on their own...and logic should suggest that different principles and approaches would apply.

 

I am sorry you simply didn't have the time to read my entire post, as I do believe I had some very valid points, particularly regarding the matter of perspective.  Either way, not all of us are so lucky, so experienced or so privledged to have access to the resources you apparently do.  It must be truly extraordinary to be able to drop a few grand on a whim for a project when you have some creative urge.  Please try and keep in mind however that not all of us are that lucky...that doesn't mean we shouldn't try, however I would be so bold as to suggest that your professional requirments may be somewhat different than the rest of us mere mortals out here...something you may wish to consider the next time you jump to the immediate conclusion of something like render farms.

 

You're welcome to your opinions, however to use an analogy, I just can't help but feel that you're trying to look at pedal cars and go carts as somehow being equal to Lamborghinis...not everyone has the need or desire to own a Diablo.  I'll forgo anything else as I don't wish to take up any more of your precious time...and I seriously doubt it would make a difference anyways.  Good Day.

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Message 10 of 15

J450NP13
Advisor
Advisor

Yikes...I'm just giving you an example....rendering even a half way decent animation can take all night to do 66 frames...

 

Just like in your other post..."something is missing"  the thing that is missing is in longer render times.  There is no way of getting around it.  It's not my opinion..it is factual.  Nothing is for free.  Beveled edges cost you...shadows cost you...reflections cost you...the thing that is missing costs you...

 

Let me guess...you're a Bernie Sanders supporter?

 

LOL..sorry..had to pull the trigger on that...LOLOLOL

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Message 11 of 15

J450NP13
Advisor
Advisor

I don't mean to discourage you elnelly.  

 

What I did when I first started was render the animation out with really low quality..or even doing playblasts.  When it was where I wanted it and everything was in place,  then I set up render sessions at night while I was alseep.  Even building low end rigs just for rendering.  I didn't even have monitors for them..just teamviewered into them set it up and fire and forget.  Have them output to a network folder and drag and drop.

 

I did many animations where it took 3 months render time at night.

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Message 12 of 15

pshwayka
Advisor
Advisor

*grabs popcorn*

Message 13 of 15

Anonymous
Not applicable

Thankyou all! I resolve with using depth map for the shadows.. It's very faster than raytracing.

But I don't understand why with the directional light don't appear the indirect shadows.. I have to use another type of light. (In my case area light because I have a window in my scene)

Do I wrong something because I'm a noob..? Or with the directional light man can't have indirect shadows?

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Message 14 of 15

Anonymous
Not applicable

You gave a lot of detail. Even though it's not my question, I was wondering the same thing. I am a student and rendering an assignment. It took 2 1/2 hours to do 30 frames out of 120. Fairly simple items (This is my first modeling class). I have an I7 processor with 16G of RAM. Following a video on YouTube it was suggested to use my GPU to render. Could this be a factor in the speed of the render? I am attaching a pic so you can see what I was trying to render. The stopper has a 120 frame animation removing it from the top. Pretty simple. I textured the crate with PSD file, maybe that is part of the problem? Any help you could give would be greatly appreciated @Anonymous .

Thanks,

Tracey

High Poly Final Modeling Object.png

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Message 15 of 15

bilal.saleem7FTYS
Contributor
Contributor

Which render farm do you use?

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